Zendik – Art Community or Labor Camp?

I’ve had these folks try to sell me their magazines on more than one occasion at various music festivals. I’ve never bought one, but I probably will next time I get the chance. I just didn’t have any money the other times. :)

It really seems to me that these people are getting people who want to be socially or politically active and they get them to believe that Zendik is making a difference and promoting art when in actuality they have very little time to devote to their passion because they are almost always working. Read the article and you’ll see what I mean.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/cover/2005/cover1104.html

Some excerpts:

Urban legends swirl around the city about this commune and its hippiefied ambassadors. Some say it’s a sex cult. Others assume the sales reps are part of an anarchist or fringe left-wing group. Others simply have no idea what these dreadlocked hawkers are doing—or why.

To find out, I spent a few days on their commune—then tucked away in the mountains of North Carolina—just before their move to West Virginia. Slowly, the farmers’ world opened up to me as they became more comfortable with my presence, though never entirely so. I painted houses and sheds and dug a latrine alongside the men, prepared meals with the women—the commune missed most of the women’s-lib movement, tucked away as it is—and interviewed past and present members. What became clear is that “Stop Bitching, Start a Revolution” seems to be more of a slogan than a mantra: The Zendiks do decidedly more bitching than revolting.

Arol Zendik, the lone survivor of the founding couple, accomplished that by imparting some “wisdom,” which later several of the farmers specifically referred to as just that: “What did you think of Arol’s wisdom?”

Arol is quite clearly the leader of the commune. In a string of mostly anti-Zendik posts from former members at hipforum.com, one disgruntled ex-farmer writes: “If you do go there, ask to see the quarters where Arol lives; and then ask to see where YOU would be living if you decided to move there. Be smart.” The Zendik Web site is just as clear: “Arol, 65, is the heart and soul of the Zendik movement.…Arol is a leader in the best possible sense of the word…Arol’s overview is tremendous, and includes every aspect of our work and lives.…[S]he pushes herself and everyone around her for more.”

Amy Welsh, a Milwaukee-based poet, unpacked her bags in Zendik’s Carolina guesthouse a few days after I arrived. (All new arrivals are quarantined for 10 days in the guesthouse. The new home in Marlinton still has no guesthouse, so visiting is heavily restricted.) I had some inside info on Welsh, having been around several Zendik men while they talked about her impending arrival. She had come a month earlier on a rare night that the farmers were partying. They advertise on their Web site that they make their own beer, but from what I saw they stopped short of drinking it, or much of any alcohol for that matter. But apparently on that night each farmer had had his or her fill, and a great time was had by all, including Welsh and her long-term girlfriend.

The gentlemen on the farm, when her arrival was discussed, tended to focus on her sexuality. They doubted that she was a “real” lesbian and were convinced they could overcome what they saw as a minor barrier.

She told me how excited she was to be in a place where she could focus on her art. I had been there long enough by then to know that she was in for a rude awakening. Very few of the members do any actual art—there’s no time; everyone’s working—unless you count work as art. The Zendik philosophy, as articulated on its Web site, refers to “Life Artistry,” which “takes the rigors of Art—the workmanship, the daring, the objectivity and intensity of focus—and applies them directly to the problems of Life itself, providing a framework of critique and self-awareness that is woefully absent from our common day-to-day reality.…In this way, Life itself becomes the Art, an object of endless fascination, where there are no limits on the potential of imagination and creativity.”

Three months after my first visit to the farm, I got a call from Welsh in Milwaukee. “They kept telling me that I was only a lesbian because of the influence of the Death Culture, and now that I was in a loving family I should embrace my hetero side,” she said. The line didn’t work.

Though she was disturbed by the incessant advances, she said, the real reason she left had more to do with the lack of revolutionary zeal on the farm. “They advertise themselves as revolutionaries, but they’re nothing but a bunch of dropouts…who couldn’t hack it in the real world. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with that, and I wish them the best, but they shouldn’t try to recruit people who are actually interested in making the world a better place.” And though they relentlessly bitch about politics and politicians in their publications, Welsh said, they don’t vote. More than just that, Welsh was shocked by the workload. “They work all day long,” she said. “There is no time for art, even if anyone there was actually interested in it.” The final straw, she said, was when they tried to stop her from leaving for a day for a gay-pride parade. She shouldn’t miss work, they told her.

866 Responses to “Zendik – Art Community or Labor Camp?”


  1. 1 Ex-Zendik May 14, 2008 at 2:29 am

    Hi,

    I noticed your blog appears right away if someone googles Zendik, and you know, the problem is that Ryan Grim’s article in the Washington CityPaper is just really lame writing. I left Zendik myself after several years there, and I can say (and have direct evidence substantiating) that it is definitely indeed a very destructive, mind-controlling cult.. very scary shit. Problem is: Grim didn’t know half the truth. If so, instead of writing an almost campy article about how they get up at 4am to milk goats and all worship meatloaf as their favorite meal, he could have revealed some of the really terrifying things that happen every day there to undermine the individuality of residents and basically enslave them to provide for the Almighty Arol and her daughter. My advice: stay far, far away from that place. Whatever you do, don’t support them by donating money. Eventually, it’s doomed anyway.

    Thanks :)

  2. 2 ex-zendik May 14, 2008 at 3:02 am

    I lived at Zendik for awhile, and there are very personal sharing with the group type of scary things that go on there, but calling Zendik farm a cult seems like an overreaction to me. the fact that everybody who lives there has to work so hard is because the goal is to create a new and different kind of culture, oriented towards co-operation as the medium of exchange, instead of money. Just because the Zendik folks don’t use money between themselves living on a farm doesn’t mean they don’t have to use money with the rest of society, which would not accept their “lifestyle” and would come take the land away without it. So they sell magazines and shirts and music that they make to have the money society requires. It’s interesting that the stuff they sell is all about changing society and getting rid of money, which apparently intrigues people enough to support them.

  3. 3 ronaldomoon May 14, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Thanks for your comments. I only know what I read, what I see, and what I think – and all of those have been known to be inaccurate at times. I appreciate you both sharing your experiences. It helps to give people a broader picture.

  4. 4 Ex-Zendik May 18, 2008 at 9:39 am

    Ha! A new and different kind of culture my ass… if you call a culture oriented toward “cooperation” one where the two elite heads of state regularly order all kinds of doodads and decorations from catalogs, go for massages, outfit themselves with lingerie.. have the lesser mortals stock their private fridge, clean up after their ill-trained pets.. a culture where everyone else is expected to defer their medical/dental/basic needs, slave on the street working 16+ hours a day several days a week.. and then, to top it off, have a rotating schedule of public humiliation and group “therapy” wherein all but the aforementioned elite are regularly dissected and judged to be not “commited” or “honest” enough to match the standards of this “revolutionary new culture”… And trust me, I am only bringing up the light stuff here, it goes deeper. The really shady stuff can’t and shouldn’t be mentioned on a public website, but I am not exaggerating or inventing one thing. You’d do the world less of a disservice by donating your $5 to the Republican National Convention.

  5. 5 El Diablo May 26, 2008 at 5:29 am

    LOL. Yeah, El Duce, Arol and Eloi (see Wells’, Time Machine)-Fawn [ed.note. Arol's little Napoleon wannabe daughter] are fucking fascists with zero erudition and black hearts. They are so retarded and throughly illiterate that they do not even know how closely they mirror the Orwellian paradigms like 1984 and Animal Farm (“Some are more equal than others”.)
    Look, they are just dishonest little gang leaders and should be given the same respect one gives a Cobra or Jesse James. Steer clear unless your ready to dispatch their asses.

    Lock & load

    El Diablo

  6. 6 Nigel June 2, 2008 at 6:01 am

    cult, dangerous cult actually.
    i know so.
    lived there, very happy i’m done with that.

  7. 7 ex-zendik June 4, 2008 at 6:41 am

    I also lived at zendik for many years, and am familiar with the complaints and criticisms posted here by people who left zendik. Media articles have never captured the nature of the community because reporters only spend a few days and never experience the day to day challenges of learning and working to live by the holistic philosophy practiced there. basically, it’s hard work to be honest and take responsibility for everything a member takes on, specifically the social and personal sharing aspects. It’s tough to live there because it’s a 24-7 commitment and most people eventually want a release from the pressure. But calling them a cult is just bitching. Stop Bitching and start a revolution…

  8. 8 So Sad June 8, 2008 at 10:12 am

    You poor brainwashed little thing, you…

  9. 9 El Diablo June 10, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Sure, sure, reporters did indeed only spend a few days there and thus have a pretty impoverished understanding of Zendik Inc. But some of us were there a least a year (or much longer). This is plenty of time to glean the over-all hypocrisy of, El Duce, Arol and her little Eloi cum Napoleon Fawn.

    And just to be clear, I think hypocrisy is normal/base-line in all of us. However, the level of malicious and cynical lying on Arol’s part is so grossly out of wack from their putative ‘Truth-Way’ and/or Crevolution that it strains credulity for one to even pretend that Arol or Zendik Inc is anything but a cynical sham.

    Look, these are grifters and craven little neo-fascists. They are like any other con-men who should be avoided at all costs. Like the US govt; Christians; and Late-Night Info-Mericals– these cults are inimical to the individual human spirit.

    One need not look any further than the fact that all the mothers there have been separated from their kids sans one: FAWN. If the objective truth were the goal there then maybe Fawn would have been one of the 9 or ten that were “terrible” mothers and thus punished. But since it’s an autocratic regime with an illiterate mongoloid (with retrograde personal aesthetics btw) running the show– her daughter, the Rex Mundi in waiting, is beyond the reach of this Truthway(inc). Sound familiar? North Korea anyone? DeathKulture Anyone?!?!?!?

    I could give a 1001 more examples (i.e., empirical evidence– to the lawyers and readers in the audience) to buttress my assertions, but why bother? People like “ex-Zendik” will just wave them away with the oblivious hand like the religious (i.e., non-thinkers) are apt to do with evidence that runs counter to their “beliefs”. (Think: Dinosaurs bones were put her to “test our faith” in a 6000 year old geo-centric world view. lol.)

    Lastly, calling them a cult is merely accurate, my friend, not merely bitching. Bitching, however, is ALL Zendik inc. seems to do– and if one doubts this, maybe one could ask where (over the rainbow) this rEvolution of theirs is exactly? Cuz I am able to give LONGS and LATS on their INCESSANT bitching (Arol’s Podcasts are non-stop non-sequitur-laden shibboleths that can ONLY be described as inert bitching. What tangible fucking gains have they made toward any paradigm shift? NONE. Yet, Arol will deride REAL revolutions that have actually achieved some real gains for humanity as retrograde and un-hip– but Zendik Inc has achieved exactly SQUAT and will never amount to shit due, in part, to the fascistic leadership that mimics Orwellian totalitarian social orders to a comical degree. They are retarded in every sense of that word– as all the smart, honest, and creative ones have left by now.)

    EL Diablo

  10. 10 interested July 3, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    I have talked to many of the members through World of Warcraft. I have pondered for many years since ive found out what it is they actually do, what it would be like to live there. Is there anyone who could give me a day to day schedule of what goes on.

    -skinny :)

  11. 11 Psycho-watch July 5, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    EL-Diablo, did you live at zendik for about 17 years? Just curious

  12. 12 El Diablo July 8, 2008 at 9:02 am

    Dearest Psycho (i.e., Arol)-watch:

    17 years? How specific. Let me apologize first off for that Hawthorn-like run on fucking sentence in the last paragraph of my last post. Jeeeeesus, it aint like periods cost anything. Sorry to my fans and the children who may read that; punctuation is our friend (say it with me).

    I lived there XX (redacted) years and it gave me plenty of insight into the good and bad of that place and its leadership. Plus, I have kept in contact with long-time members and recent apostates who are able to provide more and more empirical evidence of Zendik’s denouement (the details are pretty scary actually).

    I wish I had a (stop?) bitchin’ T-Shirt right about now that would engender fundamental social-order change. You got any for sale? XXL is my size btw. :)

    L Diablo

  13. 13 El Diablo July 8, 2008 at 9:27 am

    Dear ‘interested”

    1. wake up at ass-crack of dawn
    2. eat gruel
    3. work for EL Duce Arol
    4. lunch…
    5. hear something funny OR get told you are a worthless piece of shit )it’s a crap shoot)
    6. work for mini-Duce Fawn
    7. dinner
    8. watch retarded hollywood movie with mostly illiterate cult members
    9. go to bed in a room with >10 people OR maybe get laid (and get herpes)
    10. run away and never go back OR stay and become a cynical grifter with the ethics of a Wall-Street stock broker.

    Lock & load!

  14. 14 Psycho-watch July 8, 2008 at 10:15 am

    Is the Ass-crack of dawn considered 9am, I wish I could wake up around nine everyday and on sundays wake up around 11 or so. However, I do have a job and have to wake up at 5 or 6 am every morning. As for work, it is tough to run a farm with 23 people and sustain a message. I have friends on the farm. As for a couple people running the place, I would rather agree with that, but what place that any work is done, does not have that. Sleeping with a bunch of people is just the way Communes are. I do not know any commune where they have individual rooms. As for the food, I do not believe you would consider organic salad, free range meats,eggs, home made bread and home made cheese to be gruel. Unless you are looking for Wendy’s. Besides if people do not like it they can leave at any time, as you did. But these are just my opinions.

  15. 15 El Diablo July 8, 2008 at 11:25 am

    Hahahahahahahha (cough cough hack hack) hahahahahaha.

    Look, let’s just admit that you live there now; and send me my t-shirt. Also, you may want to look up the word “reify” and its political usage. You seem to do this to a lot of phenomena and think we don’t have enough IQ points to know any better. Saying “that’s just the way communes are” is a bit like saying that’s the way people are– there is quite a bit of novelty in each neuron so thus there is a lot of room for variation.

    Fascism by any other name would still smell as shitty. You can justify autocratic regimes by again reifying their inevitability. Merely because they exist in modern capitalist (i.e., top-down totalitarian) models doesn’t make it ethical. In the 16th century divine monarchies were “just they way things were”, but we evolved past that shit didn’t we. Me thinks it’s time to evolve again kiddo.

    At Zendik I was awakened unnaturally by a little Laotian while it was still fucking dark out. Currently I get up as I awake naturally around 8 am (sun light wakes me up like Satan intended). So nobody wakes me up (nor does an equally annoying alarm clock) cuz i run my own fucking show now. I run my own business and have a lot of creativity and free time, so your faux-lament vis-a-vis your job falls a little flat with me. See, you don’t have to choose between Zendik or wage slavery– their is a another option. It’s a false dichotomy you posit and i suspect you know this…

    The gruel comment was satire. ok? They do eat pretty well. I eat better now (all organic and a lot more of it– shit you should see my grocery bill)), but they still ate pretty good. It was a joke.

    Lastly, running a farm with 23 people is a lot easier that running one with 60 though isn’t it? LOL. The rats are fleeing the ship young lady…

    “You think this wise boy, crossing swords with a pirate?” — Capt. Jack Sparrow

    “Try enjoying the life you’ve chosen” — Bill Hicks

  16. 16 Psycho-watch July 8, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    For one, I do not live there but I do date someone there. I have dated this person for about 2 years. I do live in a completely different state and do have a government job. So your accusation that I do live there is not true, yet. I still have a few bills to pay. I am curious as to when you last lived there. From what I have heard and seen, things have evolved there and still are. That is what happens, all things evolve. Except Hate, when one holds anger and hate, they can never truly evolve. Nevertheless, if you choose to hold onto anger and hate, that is your choice. I am just putting out my opinion and observations. But I guess by responding to this, I opened myself up for belittlement and attacks. So let them fly and enjoy yourselves.

  17. 17 Psycho-watch July 8, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    Oh and by the way sleeping with a bunch people was meant as sleeping in the same area.

  18. 18 Psycho-watch July 8, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    El Diablo, I have just one more question. What where you doing in life before you went to Zendik?

  19. 19 Arol Watch July 8, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Arol hit her best carpenter, C. She should learn to control her anger, no?

  20. 20 ronaldomoon July 8, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    While I don’t agree with Psycho-watch’s assessment of the situation…I can confirm, through a little IP snooping, that he/she is telling the truth about job/whereabouts.

    Don’t be alarmed by this Psycho-watch…all webmasters have access to this info, it doesn’t reveal who you are or anything like that…just where the IP is located and who it is registered to. I will not say what gov agency you work for, in the interest of privacy, but I can at least let people know that you are not lying about it.

  21. 21 Thermal Girl July 8, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    The IP proves nothing. The text could have been written by a Zendik, then emailed to the government worker, then posted. It’s sorta like perjury.

  22. 22 El Diablo July 8, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    Kaila/Kaila’s beau:

    You’ll notice that I respond to each one of your points (and then dismantle them). This is a tactic that in the literary world we call an actual conversation– you know, a dialectic of sorts… (see: Hegelian Dialectic)

    At any rate, even though you ignore the salient points I make, I will respond to your questions, cuz that’s the kinda fella I am. But first I’ll have to respond to your inchoate assertions and accusations.

    First of all, your, “when one holds onto anger and hate, they can never truly evolve” assertion, is categorically not provable. Further, even if it is demonstrable what evidence (theoretical or empirical) do YOU have to buttress these outlandish claims? Or are we of the new-age, “we don’t need no stinking evidence” religious nuts? Are we the kind of people who just say shit and expect that, by dint of us saying it, it makes it fucking true?

    See, when I say that Monarchial rule was monolithic 500 years ago and that no republican democracies were even on the horizon in the western world that isn’t something I made up– it’s a fact that can be cross referenced. So, maybe you’ll wanna re-check this “when one holds on to anger…” shibboleth. See, I posit that anger is beneficial, because it seemingly motivates one to action. My evidence you ask? Observe the beasts (e.g., “mad as” hornets, bears, dogs, et.al.) and then ask yourself if their anger may have served them evolutionarily speaking? Observe 6 billion years of evolution and the predator/prey relationship for starters. Whose that turning red with shame in the corner?

    Further, hate itself is a quite natural emotion, and all your new-age hippie dippy horse-shit aside, I myself find it harmoniously in-line with my personality; in fact she is my muse. Much of my grand (and poetic even?) prose is written from that place and sister (or is it brother?) it moves people. Now, I am not in a class with Thomas Paine but as an historical anecdote and analogy that guy wrote from a place of pretty obvious anger and hatred (of religion and the Crown) and he, by all accounts, motivated a nation of people to rebel against tyranny and start their own republic! Quite a feat yes? Quite a noble feat at that, yes?

    So, maybe my little scribblings (motivated by hatred of autocrats and injustice) might indeed compel a smaller, but genuine group of people to lose their chains as well. Who knows? However, tangential results writ large aside, being nice and zen-happy while maybe in order (and fun) for the <100 IQ crowd, some of us more complicated beings need a little natural-aggro in our lives in order to remain somewhat honest (that is still a noble goal yes?) and sane; the bio-chemico substrate of Testosterone is paramount here as well I might add. You sound like a girl so you just may have to accept the notion that you’ll never truly understand us truculent boys (and our endocrine system)…

    Lastly, Arol did seem fit to unburden herself of her own building violent rage (or anger and hatred if you prefer) by physically striking Chazz. This fact was witnessed by two independent observers and is thus verifiable. I wonder if you are willing to lash Arol with this cat-of-nine-tails lecture you’ve given me vis-à-vis “anger and hatred”? It would be a test of your honesty, courage and overall ethical constitution either way—I know if I saw her moo-moo wearing ass I’d call her a fucking criminal con-man without a leg (or frontal lobes) to stand upon if she tried to preach that “pacifism” cum “zen-peace” horse shit all you phony ersatz peace-niks bandy about with zero credibility (see: Derrick Jensen’s, Endgame). But, maybe you just wanna get along; not rock the boat as they say.

    In all honesty I’m a pugilist by nature, but I feel compelled to tell you that, you, my friend, are just no match for this…. so I’ll leave you be as long as you stay down… lol. Oh, and while the moderator tried to assuage our anger at your seemingly false claims of who/where you are—I can say in all honesty we all think you are either Kaila or Kaila’s beau and so let’s just call a spade a spade. If this is untrue feel free to deny it, but, I think our psychic instruments are pretty well tuned to this kind of shit (but we could be wrong, shit, it happens). I’ve made ZERO attempt to conceal my identity really (beside the nom de guerre of course—but I’ve left quite an obvious bread-crumb trail). Thus, if this is Kaila or her paramour then I suspect she’ll know exactly who this is… lol.

    Ok, to answer your questions: I was, in my pre-Zendik life a PC, liberal, idiot; I worked for an environmental non-profit and was scared of my capacity for violence. On more than one occasion I’ve said (and meant—but I repeat myself) that I am eternally grateful to Zendik for the balls they gave me. They changed my life and made me the mostly satisfied individual you seem fit to mischaracterize as monolithically angry and hateful. However, they are a tyrannical sect of liars and petty grifters and thus, I will lampoon them like any other bullshit artists that cross my aim-point 50mm reticle. They gave me the balls and insights to be honest, and while they may feel exempt from the Truth-wayInc, I do not offer any such pass. All tyrants feel like the rules do not apply to them. And like all these autocrats, Arol is wrong: the rules most definitely apply to her and Zendik inc.

    L Diablo

  23. 23 El Diablo July 8, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    I happen to know for a fact (by dint of her IP address) that Thermal Girrrrl is Tooootally HOOOOOOOTTTT! ;) [ed.note. this is satirical. I hate having to say this, but fundamentalist zendiks cannot glean the satire from my posts. It's as Utah Phillips once said about fundamentalism: "it breeds a lack of irony"]

    lol.

    I love everything.

  24. 24 Psycho-watch July 9, 2008 at 7:07 am

    If this is Siah, you are a piece of work. If so I am curious, what is this business you talk of?

  25. 25 Psycho-watch July 9, 2008 at 7:16 am

    My guess is Thermal Girl is Neyci…. Not to sure about Arol watch

  26. 26 Psycho-watch July 9, 2008 at 7:38 am

    Anyway, I am not going to respond after this. I have wasted enough time here, and will be on vacation with my kids for week in NC. I hope everything turns out well for both you and your kids. Enjoy your life!!!!!!

  27. 27 El Diablo July 9, 2008 at 10:07 am

    The triumvirate (you always post in 3’s?)

    Kiala’s paramour:

    Jesus, your psychic compass is so far off true North it makes me wonder if you’re ready for Zendik. Your guesses are all wrong; and now I wanna tell you who we all are just to prove it. But, alas, I won’t cuz it aint my call to out anyone else. But as for me I aint Siah— jesus he wouldn’t write in this style at all. He’d probably think it a bit too ornate and cocky for his tastes. Ya know?

    Anyway, Kaila will know exactly who this is if she takes just a bit of time away from selling T-shirts to look at a round of e-mails from a ex-zendik asshole she happen to call up one Sunday and ask for help. She may remember the tone and tenor (and charming historical references) of those little epistles and the initials LJM may bounce around in her little apparatchik head. So, young man, you may wanna run this shit by her.

    NEXT:

    As Bill Hicks said, “you’re on a mental vacation”.

    NEXT:

    I don’t have any kids, the state said my vasectomy was a success, and I’ve got about 10 girls (18+) who’ll agree I shot blanks the whole time. :) But thanks for the warm wishes. You, too, have fun with the kiddies in NC and I can’t wait to hear you’ve joined up with the fascist mongoloids of West Virginia and ruined your life and that of your spawn. Fucking COOL!

    LOVE and PEACE and never a harsh word from me,

    L Diablo

    P.s. I am indeed a piece of work, huh? lol. I wonder why I live alone?

  28. 28 El Diablo July 9, 2008 at 10:12 am

    PART DUEX:

    Notice the total lack of commitment to buttress their own claims or refute mine. Psycho-watch is a light-weight, and should stay down. There is no saving face at this point, just stay down.

    :)

  29. 29 Neyci July 9, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    Nope, wrong again, Thermal Girl is NOT Neyci because I am Neyci, and those weren’t my posts. I’m not even sure that Siah knows about this thread, so I doubt he has posted here either. I could jump on the flame war but I will withhold my comments, namely because they will be useful in a court of law in the immediate future and I wouldn’t do anything to damage my credibility.

    Although I enjoy this thread, I do have to throw in one thing: it’s pointless. It’s pointless only because Zendik Farm, if it continues to conduct itself in the manner that it has, is digging its own grave. No need to interfere… have at it! They are doing a splendid job. Gratz!

    Nice of them to do that for us.. leaves a lot of energy free to go on enjoying life post-Zendik.. which I find to be quite lovely, beautiful, fun and fulfilling. :-)

  30. 30 Daisy Cutter July 10, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    So who gets the farm in the end? When Arol passes away, will the property be held in trust or in Fawn’s name? What of the remaining assets? Custody issues? Does anyone skim on the road trips?

    These are the real questions.

  31. 31 Daisy Cutter July 10, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    What’s with the World of Warcaft obsession?

  32. 32 Daisy Cutter July 10, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    Why is the website down right now? Has Siah been censured?

  33. 33 Daisy Cutter July 10, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    What’s with all of those Level 1 pseudo concepts?

    Sounds like bad sci-fi…

  34. 34 Daisy Cutter July 10, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    Zendik spelled backwards is kid nez…how clever! That would be my Zendik name!

  35. 35 El Diablo July 10, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    lol. kid nez. in the end the worms will get the farm…

    Lock & load!

  36. 36 sabre July 16, 2008 at 12:08 am

    holy shit.

  37. 37 jyre July 29, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    john heffron Says:
    July 13th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
    I lived with the Zendiks for ten years (’95-’05) and I still google Zendik every few months. I just came across this blog and the comments, and I want to add some things to help people understand what Zendik is about.

    Lots of people can identify and analyze the obvious social and cultural problems that we all live with an awareness of, but no direct action about, every day. Just read a newspaper which recites the litany of struggle and suffering going on. Most people don’t decide to save humanity or fix society, they just struggle to make their own life as good as it can be. Some do take the task to heart and are activists. Wulf and Arol Zendik decided to forge a new culture, based on ideals more far reaching than the US constitution because it includes the personal relationships of the people, not just the political and human rights.

    Zendik is about committing oneself to a personal and group pursuit of an idealistic philosophy based in a holistic approach to living and creating.

    If the world is a collection of people and groups competing with each other, especially reducing the value of everything including people down to money, and the results are in, it is destructive, unfulfilling for the vast majority – and maybe suicidal for the human species – then creating a better way to do human culture is a good solution.

    To do that: get land, start practicing what you preach and keep open to expansion of the ideas and possibilities for improvement, not just survival, but artistic creation as well. Easy…

    Then there’s living together. People move in to Zendik from all different backgrounds and life experiences, but the personal baggage brought shares one main thing: we all grew up in a competitive culture and rejected it or major parts of it on logical grounds and with a feeling of hope for better possibilities. It’s fun to throw in and make it happen, like a big art project.
    But everyone at Zendik also commits to being as deeply honest with each other as is possible, and even tougher, with themselves when reflecting. So it’s a constant group therapy, that interpersonal work being as important as food, transport, maintenance, etc.
    What is alien to most people’s understanding of Zendik is the emotionally personal and interpersonal work that is the core of building this new culture.
    It’s easy to give a recipe for a better culture as far as feeding, housing, providing for each other materially goes, but the getting along… helping each person with self respect, judgement, dignity, affirmative outlook, reaching for dreams, romantic relationships, etc… this is a group need.
    Our global human culture doesn’t yet have ‘addressing that need’ built into it’s approach to surviving. You’re on your own in a competitive society because survival is material, but realistically, that doesn’t work out in the short or long term because of the suffering, people and everything else. It’s worse for everything to compete against each others survival rather than cooperating.

    Zendik is a living experiment, trying to create a culture where everyone has that emotional support and material survival built in. The world is competitive and money gets you your survival and maybe an oppurtunity to bring ‘a developing experiment of co-operative culture’ to people’s attention, so Zendik makes art and sells it, the art bringing a message and a vision for the future. So far so good.
    I think the inevitable result of living in a co-operative is a certain insular perspective – that probably was what was felt by the students at the Zendik presentation.
    When no one earns personal income, relys on just communication and working together to get everything done, instead of having a bunch of people bringing in money working for companies, just to support this group effort to attain ideals, it’s easy to be insulated. The students don’t relate to how Zendik wants everyone to be able to live life on completely different levels than they’ve been exposed to, and Zendiks are out in the atmosphere they rejected to join Zendik. Awkward…

    Most people don’t think about this but we don’t have to talk to other people around us about every thought or impulse or analyze everything that’s happening to us to identify our involvement in what caused it or try to dig out unconscious attitudes and beliefs, all day every day as a way of life, during work, art, social, etc… and sexual, mental and emotional group therapy. Most of us are not dedicated to “pursuing the truth of ourselves and everything’ in service to a holistic ideal of how to live.

    Heavy emotional scenes come with so much therapy, but the result is getting the stuff that’s on your mind and in your gut and heart, even fears and doubts – out in the open to be helped, which way more often than not leads to real progress personally and in contributions to the group effort through better art and work, ideas, etc. That’s evolution. I saw that happening through the whole time I lived there.

    It’s pretty tough to start a new culture, and explaining the 35 year development of Zendik is a long task. The media occasionally does an article and never even comes close to understanding the Zendik approach to life and the philosophy of holism that underpins the daily events.

    While I lived there, lots of ways to do stuff therapy-wise was thought up, put into trial, adopted or discarded, and the evolution of individuals and the group was palpable. The nature of the process was experimental, and the occasional harsh emotional things were just part of the process – which was an attempt to adopt ideas and practice them.

    If you were surrounded every day by people talking about how to become more disciplined, more honest, more freely emotional and expressive, more diligent, more determined to reach personal goals, more willing to take yourself to task after complaints about your attitude, more committed to your effort to exemplify ideals and bring a vision you are personally/collectively trying to enact to the GENERAL PUBLIC, then you could begin to understand what being a zendik is like. But also you’d have to FEEL that the message is worth bringing… that message being that all the people in the world need to change from living competitively with money and jobs to living cooperatively with no money and no jobs, just the pursuit of working together using the most honest communication possible to create the best life we can imagine. Or else we are in for dire consequences (which I believe is true).
    Without individual striving for security, and/or wealth, what’s to strive for? How ‘bout personal growth and creating the best life possible for everyone? How far can you go trying to do that? The message…

    So all these snippets that are posted by folks who used to live there are being composed and even analyzed within an inappropriate context: the context of a society that will let you die if you have no money and can’t earn it. Haves and have nots and killing for profit.

    Zendik is an experiment to develop an artistic social culture with technology that ends that way of being, and create a way to live based on deeper ideals. Holistic ideals, which are barely a half century old as concepts. Their mistakes are along with the good work done to date.
    Zendik is just a bunch of people like all other communities, and they have the same problems with relationships, health, life choices and such, but the focus on Zendik is the living experiment, guinea pigging yourself for a purpose that inspires while it pressures you. Can’t know what it’s like to go through boot camp or join a monastery until you do it. Same difficulty understanding Zendik.

    Jyre
    john heffron

  38. 38 Helen Newman July 30, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    Hey Jyre! How’s it going? Have you listened to “The Ballad of Zendik Farm” yet? You can find it at http://www.myspace.com/zendikfarm. It gives, shall we say, an “alternate perspective” on the Zendik “experiment.”

  39. 39 jyre July 30, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    helen,
    I did listen to some of it, a chuckle escaped, then I just couldn’t finish it. I wish you’re creativity went towards more meaningful things… I know it’s hard to deal with our personal work on ourselves and there’s no network of support for ex-zendiks, but the whole attitude and vibe of the angry ex-zendiks seems like a waste of precious energy to me. Chazz, Kaila, Vong, everybody who lives there, is at least doing enormous amounts of productive work to keep zendik going, which is hopeful, right? and get the message out that we humans can live without jobs, money, competition. We still have to spend the rest of our lives dealing with personal work, and even if the folks at Zendik, including Arol, are pissing people off with their attitude or their harsh demeanor or their seemingly uninterested in ex-zendik behavior, I have respect for them for their commitment to the cause – which is more than I can say for the complainers who just rain down negativity with nothing to suggest that includes their responsibility. Wulf was right, competition won’t work.

  40. 40 Helen Newman July 30, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    Glad you got at least one chuckle out of it. I in fact derive quite a bit of meaning from using my creativity to tell the truth as I see it, whether in plain or poetic form.

    There is actually a vast network of support for ex-Zendiks who’ve come to our senses: each other. All the mycelium on the planet’s got nothing on us.

    Correction: Everyone who lives at Zendik is doing enormous amounts of work to line Arol’s pockets, satisfy her desire for power and attention, and ensure an inheritance (of money and minions) for her daughter and her grandchildren.

    By the way–I just finished a book I think you might really enjoy. It’s called Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves. I’d be delighted to hear your opinion of it.

  41. 41 jyre July 30, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    Helen,
    if you are into sending me a copy I’ll read it. Are you asking for critique or just wanting to share? I know you can write. I like some of what you write, some, enh…
    I’d be more interested in your take on pursuing truth as an ex-zendik…
    I mean really pursuing truth, not ‘truth as you see it…’

  42. 42 Helen Newman July 30, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    Hey Jyre,

    The book I mentioned, Releasing the Bonds, was written by cult specialist Steven Hassan, not me. It’s a self-help guide for people who’ve been in cults and those who have loved ones in cults; its purpose is to help people free their minds from authoritarian control. So, in saying I’d love to hear your opinion of it, I’m not asking for a critique of my writing; I’m asking you to read something that might change your perspective on Zendik. And yes, if you send me your address (you can email it to madgelma@hotmail.com) and give me your word that you will read the book all the way through and then tell me what you think of it, I will purchase another copy and mail it to you. Do we have a deal?

    As for pursuing truth: There’s no difference between “really pursuing truth,” and “pursuing truth as I see it.” Those things are one and the same. What I’d like to see is you pursuing truth with Arol’s blinders removed. Maybe reading Releasing the Bonds will help.

    I’m curious: At what point did you stop listening to my song? And what part of it made you chuckle?

    Love,
    Helen

  43. 43 jyre July 30, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    If you want to send me the book, I will read it, all the way through and tell you what I think. Up to you…
    I’m curious why you would say that about pursuing truth. Obviously everyone has an opinion, a gut feeling, a sense, a collection of observed things, etc. But while that is a collection of things that can be said to be “true” because you experienced them or have them in existence in your mind, I think you know that there is a ‘real’ reality, an actual moment to moment (and evolving) snapshot like ’state of things’ that one can be more or less aware of, depending on their mind and experiences and intentions. That would be what i refer to as the ‘truth’ to be pursued (aware of). Like for example, whatever our opinion of another person’s actions and intentions, more than likely the inner reality of ‘who they are, where they are coming from, the “Truth” of them’ is made up of way more info than we can access and is much larger than our awareness of it. So we say, I know what I know, but that’s not the same as I know the truth. In fact the whole ‘pursuit of truth’ concept reflects that all you can ‘know’ is less than the totality, so the pursuit is appropriate as a means to know more, but not a destination.
    What blinders are you referring to? Brainwashing? Do you really think you stayed at Zendik for years because you were ‘brainwashed’? I had many conversations with you about your feelings and emotions and problems and triumphs. We worked and lived together, and we shared the work, the personal growth, the adventure, the learning… You may be mad at Arol, you may think Zendik is mismanaging the revolution, whatever, but I’ll never forget the progress you made, we all made, as people, together, and I’ll never dishonor the attempt being made still today, because it is a true attempt.
    He said, she said… is that the bottom line now…? is that the ‘truth as you see it’?

  44. 44 Helen Newman July 31, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    Yes, I will send you the book. But you’ll need to send me your address, since my powers of telepathy sputter and then fizzle out somewhere around the New York border.

    The “Truth” (the “real” reality) you refer to is, I gather, the explanation of the world–the psychology, cosmology and philosophy–you learned at Zendik. You believe that explanation to apply to all humans, all life, in all situations. In fact, it doesn’t. It’s just one idea of how the universe works, and not a very sound one. Answer the following questions, for an example of how one essential aspect of the Zendik philosophy–the “law” of psychic cause and effect–breaks down, when paired with a dogged devotion to the cause:

    1) Do you believe in psychic cause and effect?
    2) Do you believe that you attract to yourself what you are, i.e., that if you attract anger and dissension, that is what you are broadcasting?
    3) If you answered yes to questions 1 & 2, then explain to me Arol’s role in “attracting” the anger and dissension of me and other ex-Zendiks? What “signals” is Arol sending out, to entrain with those bouncing back at her? Does the “law” of cause and effect cease to function when it enters her force field?

    Note: I do not believe in psychic cause and effect; I am only offering these questions in order to point out one of many flaws in the Zendik belief system.

    You claim there’s such a thing as “real” reality, “Truth” with a capital “T”. How do two people with differing perspectives reach agreement as to what constitutes this “Truth”? At Zendik, Arol enforces her version of “Truth” through fear–if you don’t accept what she says as gospel, you face the threat of losing your home, friends, livelihood, and (you believe, thanks to the phobias she’s installed in your psyche) your hope for a meaningful life. Hence, at Zendik, there is no such thing as, “he said, she said”–there is only, “she said.” Period.

    Here in the wide world, on the other hand, it is possible for me to disagree with you without fear, and vice versa–neither of us stands to lose home, friends, etc., should we persist in holding an opinion contrary to that held by the other. I judge this to be a healthy context in which the free exchange of ideas can flourish.

    The trouble you and I are facing, Jyre, as we go ’round and ’round regarding the truth of Zendik, is that, while my information base includes your information base, your information base excludes mine. Here’s how that works: For six years I believed, as you do, that Zendik was a legitimate experiment focused on creating a new culture and a better world. The evidence and opinions you offer in defense of this, your basic premise, are therefore familiar to me; I am well acquainted with your information base. I, on the other hand, also have access to another information base, with which you, thus far, have not chosen to acquaint yourself, that is, an understanding of how Zendik fits the pattern of a destructive cult. Until you expand your information base to match mine–or until one of us finds a way to make the other phobic about disagreeing–it is not likely that we will come to an agreement on what truth is. However: Reading this book I’m going to send you will, I hope, help bridge the gap.

    The blinders I’m referring to are not the result of brainwashing, but mind control. Brainwashing, in my understanding, implies a radical transformation of values and personality contingent on constant application of force and/or the threat of physical violence; someone who has been brainwashed quickly reverts to the pre-brainwashing personality and belief system, once force and/or the threat of violence has been removed. Mind control, on the other hand, is a more subtle strategy for altering a person’s personality and belief system; it depends on tactics such as controlling a person’s milieu and access to information, and also installing phobias of the dire consequences they’ll suffer, should they cease to be true to the cause/obey their leader.

    Yes, I stayed at Zendik for five years–and believed for six–because I was under the influence of mind control. Of course, that wasn’t the only thing that made me stay–I loved and treasured the people I lived with, and there were surely times of laughter, enjoyment, even ecstatic involvement. My time there was not all coercion and drudgery. However: It was the manipulation and the deception that made me stay as long as I did. If not for these factors, I would have departed the first–or at least the second or third–time my sovereignty was violated and my dignity incinerated. I believed (falsely) that these humiliations were essential, if I was to further my “evolution”; I feared that worse awaited me if I left. In fact, what I was “evolving” into was merely a deployable “true believer,” (see Bounded Choice, by Janja Lalich), i.e., one willing to obey Arol’s commands regardless of the dictates of my own moral compass.

    Yes, you and I, and I and others, had many conversations, at Zendik, about our thoughts, emotions, triumphs and problems. Absolutely. And every one of those conversations occurred within the limits of what was permitted by Zendik, that is, within a model of “bounded choice.”

    For example: Let’s say I’m at Zendik and I’m sucking at selling. Sure, the two of us can have a conversation about that, about why that is and how to handle it, but there are strict limits to what we can say.

    The following explanations for my troubles are permitted: I am having trouble selling because I’m insufficiently committed to the revolution; because I’m having sexual problems at home; because I have a DK “fantasy” that’s distracting me. The following explanations are not permitted: I’m having trouble selling because the music sucks; because the writing in the magazine is befuddling and repetitive; because I’d be better off doing something else that’s more worthwhile to me personally and also more consonant with my talents.

    The following ideas regarding how to address the problem are permitted: How about you tattoo Affirmative Life quotations on your arm (i.e., improve your attitude) before you go out on the street? How about you have a date the night before you leave for a road trip? How about you really imagine how horrible it would be to work a job in the DK, how much worse that would be than selling? The following ideas regarding how to address the problem are not permitted: How about you start your own business, doing something you enjoy more? How about you redo the magazine so that it reflects the diversity of the many artists you live with? How about if you keep a percentage of the funds you make every selling day, to spend as you please, as an incentive?

    I think one piece of information you’re missing, Jyre, is that participating in a cult situation does not equal acting like a zombie. At Zendik I made decisions, assessed situations, employed my perspicacity and creativity to navigate a treacherous social sea; I used my (bounded) intellect to figure out how best to survive and thrive within the prescribed limits. However: I was not able to access the full spectrum of my emotions, talents, or intelligence, thanks to the fences erected within my mind. A friend who knew me before, during and after Zendik described my Zendik self as Helen with sharp edges shorn off, Helen with a narrowed range of frequencies able to send and receive. The process by which I dulled and muted myself does not qualify as “personal growth.”

    I think, Jyre, that in looking back on your years at Zendik, you are mistaking alteration for progress. Yes, many aspects of the Zendik lifestyle have mutated repeatedly, over the years: population, living arrangements, eating habits, dating protocols, selling totals, and so on. The one thing that has not changed is Arol’s supremacy: Every seemingly epic shift originates with her whim.

    In closing, Jyre, I have a couple more questions for you:
    1) Do you think that a just, loving world can be created by a group whose leader is neither just nor loving?
    2) What would Arol have to do–how far would she have to go–for you to doubt her benevolence? Would you still support and defend her if
    a) She committed physical violence?
    b) She demanded that women abort babies they wished to have?
    c) She inflicted deep emotional and psychological wounds on mothers, fathers and children by separating infants from their parents?
    d) She demanded that other Zendiks donate every cent to the cause, but kept a $60,000 inheritance for herself, and contemplated using a large chunk of it to buy a diamond ring?
    e) She made sure that those in her inner circle received adequate health care, but refused to provide it for the rank and file?

    How high is your tolerance for greed, cruelty, and hypocrisy?
    Let me know.

  45. 45 jyre August 1, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    “How high is your tolerance for greed, cruelty, and hypocrisy?
    Let me know…” – helen

    I’d say it’s pretty high. I lived 28 years in the US before moving to Zendik. I hated the greed, cruelty and hypocrisy before deciding to give Zendik a shot… I stayed ten years, and saw way, way, way, less of that while living there. Some, sure. But since leaving and living as an ex-zendik, i’d say the greed, cruelty and hypocrisy are much more prevalent, ubiquitous and immutable everywhere I go now. Without a commitment to pursue truth together with my neighbors, colleagues, aquaintances, family and friends… there’s no comparison really. Zendik is heading in the right direction, problems included. I can’t say that about myself now, almost anyone I know or spend time around, or you… not that the potential isn’t there, it’s in all of us. But unless we unite, like Zendiks do? what do you think of NYC, Chicago, etc., as far as working together for a cause that is obviously benevolent goes…? Saving the world was never really the goal. The goal was pursuing truth, as a means to turn around the direction we humans are going in. I still think Zendik contributes towards that, more than I do, or you do, struggling to survive, pay bills and work on myself surrounded by everyone else doing the same thing without a common vision of a better way…

  46. 46 jyre August 1, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    BTW, it’s wearying to converse with you about Zendik being a cult. You went to harvard for chrissake and you can’t admit you didn’t want to face shit you know you need to work on? You are a great person and a terrible person, depending on the moment, like all of us. Yet you are claiming to believe you’re smart enough to figure out that Zendik is really ‘bad’ after spending five years there thinking it was ‘good’? Whatever…

  47. 47 jyre August 1, 2008 at 11:32 pm

    I also think if you have such strong feelings about it, you, and/or anyone else who lived there, it’s still YOU who needs to take responsibility to talk to the people you lived with about it. Not treat them like the enemy, because they’re not. They’re people. Don’t ever give up your dreams or ideals. You grew and gained there and use it every day of your life, yet you dismiss them. wrong.

  48. 48 jyre August 1, 2008 at 11:53 pm

    “I think, Jyre, that in looking back on your years at Zendik, you are mistaking alteration for progress. Yes, many aspects of the Zendik lifestyle have mutated repeatedly, over the years: population, living arrangements, eating habits, dating protocols, selling totals, and so on. The one thing that has not changed is Arol’s supremacy: Every seemingly epic shift originates with her whim.” – helen

    I don’t know Arol. I don’t think I ever really will. True of many, many people I respect for what they’ve done. I don’t expect her to be perfect, but I know she’s more honest than you are, or I am, and I am willing to believe she doesn’t care in the moment whether what she says or how her demeanor affects people. She isn’t perfect, no one is. She works harder than anyone I’ve ever encountered to accomplish the most important thing I can conceive of. A sane human culture. Who gives a shit if she slapped someone once, or ‘contemplated getting a diamond’. Are you serious? Find a way to discover that you are not superior or ‘right’ when it comes to judging another person. Hold up your own mistakes to the light, while talking of others…

  49. 49 jyre August 1, 2008 at 11:56 pm

    I don’t buy the whole bitterness trip as being constructive.

  50. 50 Almond August 2, 2008 at 7:15 am

    Yeah, I guess the slaves shouldn’t have felt bitterness when their masters/owners sold their children because they didn’t really know their masters.

    It’s the sum pattern of Arol Zendik’s behavior, and that pattern spells: cult leader. (See evidence below.)

    Everyone who’s dealt with this cult knows the Zendiks don’t accept criticism (especially Arol Zendik), so Ms. Newman couldn’t talk to anyone anyway. What a crock of shit statement to make.

    Ms. Newman is pursuing truth, and seems to be having fun doing it. She doesn’t sound like a bitter person to me.

    The Zendiks are uniting? They’re not uniting, they’re telemarketing t-shirts.

    In its 40 years of existence, the Zendiks have failed to establish one long-term relationship with a single activist group or “outside” individual in a mutual effort to create an effective strategy/mobilization to achieve their stated goal: “revolution.”

    40 years. Not one long-term strategic relationship. Why is that? Because the Zendik leadership isn’t interested in relationships that cannot be under its control.

    Below is a list of 15 cult characteristics put forth by author, Janga Lalich.

    Zendik grades out at 100%:

    1) The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader, and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

    2) Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

    3) Mind altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking tongues, denunciation sessions, or debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

    4) The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (e.g., members must get permission to date, change jobs, or marry–or leaders prescribe what to wear, where to live, whether to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

    5) The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and its members (e.g., the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar–or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

    6) The group has a polarized, us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

    7) The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders, or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

    8) The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (e.g., lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

    9) The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and control members. Often this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

    10) Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

    11) The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

    12) The group is preoccupied with making money.

    13) Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

    14) Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

    15) The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. The believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave–or even consider leaving–the group.

  51. 51 Superfreak August 2, 2008 at 9:59 am

    Jyre, if Zendik is such a happy-skippy place, why don’t you still live there? Maybe you could start by sharing your story of why and how you left the farm, as proof that it is such a benevolent place.

    (Caution: Many people that were present the day you left are watching this thread, so I would suggest telling the truth.)

  52. 52 jyre August 2, 2008 at 10:37 am

    wow… you’re really foaming on the page here… complete with smiley emoticons… I thought maybe you would feel where I’m coming from when you initially wrote ‘Hi Jyre”, that tone was hopeful… I tried to engage you on the level we both used to be on – that the way things are is unacceptable. Seems you’ve accepted what you used to question, including some lists that tell you what to think and what is right and wrong. Hmmmnn… sounds familiar… you talk about members but there are no members – just people. Remember the people? Every thing on your list applies to everyone around you on some level.

    1) The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader, (alive or dead) and regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. (Organized religion)
    2) Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. (Let’s see. Remember school? How bout that job you had? Dissent?!! Cops love to see you coming…
    3) Mind altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking tongues, denunciation sessions, or debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). (Television. ’nuff said, oh and most jobs can be described as debilitating)
    4) The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (e.g., members must get permission to date, change jobs, or marry–or leaders prescribe what to wear, where to live, whether to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). (dress codes, peer pressure, parents, bosses, fashion rules, not to mention ‘media influence’)
    5) The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and its members (e.g., the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar–or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). (US govt or really any govt – see obama)
    6) The group has a polarized, us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. (and you don’t?!)
    7) The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders, or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). (Accountable? doesn’t seem to prevent them from molesting little kids, or killing innocent civilians, or stealing money, or even worse from the military…)
    The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (e.g., lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). (see Iraq war – support the troops)
    9) The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and control members. Often this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. (Remember school?)
    10) Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group. (organized religion)
    11) The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
    12) The group is preoccupied with making money.
    13) Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. (11,12,13 – sounds like every church, growing company, or college I’ve ever heard of)
    14) Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. (like a social clique? or a christiaan, jew, muslim, etc…)
    15) The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. The believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave–or even consider leaving–the group. (I’m just glad my soul isn’t on the line here! Hell is full of the less than devout)

    You will get more out of your life building something positive than you will tilting at windmills…

    Jyre

  53. 53 jyre August 2, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Super freak… Here’s the link…
    http://jyre.livejournal.com/515.html

  54. 54 jyre August 2, 2008 at 10:52 am

    almond… joy… sometimes you feel like a nut… sometimes you don’t…

  55. 55 Arguing with Jyre is Pointless August 2, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    Jyre is highly intelligent and would occasionally teach classes to everyone at Zendik about physics and how to understand the conclusions of writers in the trendy, cutting-edge field of the physics of human consciousness. Jyre got a lot of praise for those classes from Arol, because the two of them agreed that research in this field reinforced the “equation” that Wulf invented to explain the nature of the universe.

    I=eM-e.. aka the Cosmic Equation.

    Okay, first off, this is actually NOT an equation. An equation would take numeric values or symbolic representations of values and compute them in such a way as to obtain a mathematical result. The letters in I=eM-e do not algebraically represent numbers. They are abbreviations for words.

    I=eM-e stands for I Am Elemental Energy.

    The “equation” of I Am Elemental Energy is, yes, just another retooled way to say “I have the universal divinity inside myself”, yet another metaphysical concept lifted from numerous mystical traditions and nondenominational churches, etc. –Yawn–

    I would, however, recommend some readings such as Mohandas Ghandi or Leo Tolstoy or Thoreau if you want to read about some of “Wulf’s” ideas from the people that actually DID live by them (who incidentally get no respect from Zendik and/or Arol for being the originators).

    I’ve tried arguing with Jyre in the past, it’s pointless. If you try to point out that many of the things Arol and the Zendiks do are highly illegal, his usual refuge is that the “laws of this culture are bullshit”.. typical. You know, openly and unapologetically stating that you don’t believe in the laws of American society and don’t feel compelled to follow the mandates of the justice system isn’t a good way to prove that you are a responsible, functioning adult.

    Jyre’s tale of his Zendik departure is as expected, a sort of glossy “I just couldn’t come up with it” tale.. the truth is that after several hours-long sessions spent tearing apart his sexual proclivities, quirks, childhood memories, etc., he didn’t just leave. He was kicked out. What did he leave with after 10 years of commitment to Zendik? I don’t remember exactly how much he was given, probably about $10 and a bus ticket, or maybe like Helen it was just the ten bucks and he had to make your own way. I also recall Arol telling him specifically that she just didn’t want to have to live with him anymore. This is the woman he gives his adoring loyalty to. He was disposable. Even after he taught all those classes and such, she didn’t give one rat’s ass about him, really. Especially when her lifestyle of totalitarian contol makes it necessary to periodically expunge one previously valuable member in order to keep everyone else on their toes.

    Here’s an interesting contrast. We could look at this anthropologically.

    Jyre:
    -derided constantly
    -had low status
    -kicked out for a nonexistent infraction of “failing to be honest”.
    -had a dog that was for some reason blamed for the killing of Arol’s cat. Revel was stopped at the last minute with a gun in his hand on his way to shoot Jyre’s dog for this supposed crime, even though there was no evidence.

    Revel:
    -has been caught sneaking booze twice. The last bust was a couple of months ago, when all kinds of liquor bottles, chewing tobacco, and other contraband was found hidden in his studio (yes, that specially built private studio).
    -Zendik Farm spent literally thousands of dollars.. maybe ten thousand.. on alternative therapies and doctors for his “blood sugar condition” that made his breath smell like alcohol.
    -is the 32-year old slender, handsome boyfriend of Arol. Yes, Arol the leader. YES, Arol the 70 year old woman who is about 60-70 pounds overweight.
    -had internet porn on his computer that was seen by one person (verified) before he managed to delete it during his second big bust. Anyone else heard that whole Arol radio show about how terrible pornography is and how it shouldn’t be tolerated?

    What happened to the oh-so-friendly Mr. Revel A. Zendik the second time he was caught? Of course, Revel is restored to his duties of regular Arol-Fluffing and Cold-Nasty-Look-Giving from the newly expanded wing of his office, its extra large windows with a lovely view of the pond, and his untouchable air that demands that you never ask him to wash a dish.

    My conclusion: There is ample evidence regarding Zendik as a “movement” that is truly a destructive cult in the guise of a social movement. Also, in addition to Jyre’s statement that they are “just people”, of course they are. They are just people that are hateful, violent liars who will do anything to further their agenda.

    And Jyre? He is a cult member. Still loyal, because he has not managed to free himself from their persuasive control. There have been several interesting studies that prove that cult members who do not leave on their own accord and are kicked out, struggle for many more years with self-doubt and self-recrimination.

    We should all together redirect this thread to the enormously positive things that have happened in all of our lives since becoming free of the Zendik Cult. And ignore Jyre. He either will become free, or he won’t. We can do no more.

  56. 56 jyre August 2, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    and you are?

  57. 57 jyre August 2, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    anonymous because?

  58. 58 Helen Newman August 2, 2008 at 5:48 pm

    Arguing with Jyre is Pointless said, “We should all together redirect this thread to the enormously positive things that have happened in all of our lives since becoming free of the Zendik Cult.”

    I agree (although I do hold out hope that the “discussion” we’ve been having might also, eventually, bear fruit). So here’s a partial list of the wonderful things that have happened to me since I (mentally and physically) left Zendik:

    1) I’ve gotten my own voice back as a writer; I’m able to describe people, events, feelings, etc. in detail, rather than in general, mythical terms.
    2) I’ve regained my ability to think critically, to stop and ask, “Wait, what do -I- think?” when faced with unequivocal statements.
    3) I’ve taken classes in lots and lots of things I’ve long wanted to learn: gymnastics, stand-up comedy, composting, permaculture, memoir writing, singing. I’m also embarking on the project of learning to play guitar.
    4) I’ve resumed and deepened my friendships with many ex-Zendiks–I’ve gained the ability to care for them unconditionally, to relate to them without fear of our conversations/interactions being condemned as “square.”
    5) I’ve resumed and deepened my relationships with family members and friends I’d largely lost touch with–I’m able fully to trust and love them once again, without worrying that my contact with them will “corrupt” me.
    6) I’ve regained the ability to articulate myself precisely, in speaking–I’m no longer limited to a third-grade vocabulary littered with four-letter words.
    7) I’ve reached peace with eating–I very much enjoy food, and love growing and cooking it, but I no longer treat it as my only friend.
    8) I’ve regained access to a wide variety of books and other reading materials–I can read whatever I want, whenever I feel like it.
    9) I’ve regained ease with leisure, and with designing my own days, weeks, months, decades.
    10) I’ve assumed ownership of my sexuality–it’s up to me to decide whom I do what with, and whom I tell about it afterwards.
    11) I’ve regained faith in myself, in my essential goodness.
    12) I’ve found work–urban/suburban organic vegetable gardening–that’s meaningful, helpful to the ecology, and deeply satisfying.
    13) I’ve written my first book (not finished yet, but it will be soon).
    14) I’ve written songs, and sung them for appreciative audiences.
    15) I’ve learned how to dress myself in a way that flatters me.
    16) I’ve joined a food co-op and a community garden that run on cooperation.
    17) I’ve gotten paid to write.
    18) I’ve created a blog in which I can say whatever I want.
    19) I’ve resumed my pursuit of visual art–I’ve made various pieces just for the fun of it, and also started my own card business.
    20) I’ve resumed the ability to see most people I meet as my fellow humans, rather than lesser beings last in line for enlightenment.
    And last, but certainly not least,
    21) I’ve become reacquainted with the delights of sharing a bathroom with only one or two other people.

    Freedom…how sweet it is….

  59. 59 Helen Newman August 2, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    Those smiley faces in my previous post are not my fault! (I think there’s some evil script at work that automatically transforms certain combinations of numbers and parentheses into emoticons.)

  60. 60 jyre August 2, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    My conclusion: There is ample evidence regarding Zendik as a “movement” that is truly a destructive cult in the guise of a social movement. Also, in addition to Jyre’s statement that they are “just people”, of course they are. They are just people that are hateful, violent liars who will do anything to further their agenda.
    And Jyre? He is a cult member. Still loyal, because he has not managed to free himself from their persuasive control. There have been several interesting studies that prove that cult members who do not leave on their own accord and are kicked out, struggle for many more years with self-doubt and self-recrimination.

    I’ll take the zendiks over Bush and his helpers any day…
    Oh, and geez, if struggling with self-doubt and self-recrimination make me a cult member, we’re all in the cult… how do you like being in the cult?

  61. 61 I vote for synthesis... August 2, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    Hegelian Principle Helps Explain How the Powerful Got That Way
    August 2nd, 2008 12:22 am
    From: Natural News
    by Barbara L. Minton

    How did the powerful gain power over the rest of us? In a time when the power and freedom of the average American is being eroded at terrific speed, many of us wonder how this could be happening. What we may not realize it that the powerful have specific tools or principles to use to con the rest of us into surrendering our power to them. One of the most effective principles used in the last several years with great success is the Hegelian Principle.

    The principle is simple, consisting of only three steps toward a preconceived goal. Once you are able to see how it works, you may want to analyze many of the events unfolding around you in terms of this principle. As the principle is often used today, it can be explained as:

    Step One: Create a problem or conflict – Perceive a problem that exists and build it up out of proportion to its actual importance, or create a problem or conflict where none existed before.

    Step Two: Publicize the problem and create opposition to it – Relentlessly place stories about this problem in the major media outlets. Report on it daily until it becomes a steady drumbeat and a truism for the public who then begin clamoring for a solution to this problem.

    Step Three: Offer a solution – The best solutions are those that appeal to the emotions of the public and make them think something really good is being done for them, when in fact, something really bad is being done to them. This solution is one that the public never knew it needed until the conditioning of Step Two was successfully completed.

    A simple example of the Hegelian Principle at work was the food industries’ conning of the public to throw out their butter and run to buy margarine. It goes like this:

    Step One: Food industry is geared up to provide food for soldiers during WWII. When war ends, food industry needs to turn its capacity into something it can sell during peace time. It wants to use cheap ingredients to make a high margin product and decides on the manufacture of margarine, but needs to find a way to get the public to buy it. They decide on a scheme to turn the people against butter.

    Step Two: Food companies spread propaganda convincing the populace that butter is deadly to their health. Appeal to fear. Get doctors and nutritionists to help in the spreading of propaganda. Sponsor medical studies to “prove” that butter is deadly. Convince housewives who had grown up healthy while eating butter that they are placing their families in jeopardy if they serve butter.

    Step Three: Food companies rush in to save the American public from having to put butter on their tables. They present margarine. Women who want their families to love them stampede to buy margarine. Voila!

    One of the classic and most sinister examples of the Hegelian Principle involves the Nazi’s rise to power that quickly followed the burning of the German Parliament building, the Reichstag, on the night of February 27, 1933.

    Step One: Adolf Hitler, the new Chancellor of Germany, has no intention of abiding by the rules of democracy that installed him into the Chancellor position. He intends only to use those rules to legally establish himself as dictator as quickly as possible, and begin the Nazi revolution. But opposition lurks in his path.

    The Nazis, led by Joseph Goebbels, devise a scheme to burn down the Reichstag, the building where the elected officials of the republic meet to conduct the daily business of government, and blame it on the Communist opposition.

    Step Two: Hitler acts as though he is enraged over the fire and speaks out that the German people have been too soft on the Communists, proclaiming that “every Communist official must be shot. All friends of the Communists must be locked up. And that goes for the Social Democrats and the Reichsbanner as well!” Hitler directs the newspaper’s coverage of the fire. He and Goebbels put together papers full of lies about a Communist plot to violently seize power in Berlin. The newspaper proclaimed that only Hitler and the Nazis could prevent a Communist takeover.

    Step Three: Hitler demands an emergency decree to overcome the crisis. There is little resistance, and the decree is signed “for the protection of the people and the State”. According to the decree, “Restrictions on the personal liberty, on the right of free expression of opinion, including freedom of the press; on the rights of assembly and association; and violations of the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications and warrants for house searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed.” The Nazi dictatorship is established.

    The Hegelian Principle was first described by Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, a 19th century German philosopher. The principle defined a method used to produce a oneness of mind on any given issue or thought. Since its conception, it has been used repeatedly and very successfully to gain power, status, money and control. The original terms for the three steps were Thesis, Antithesis, and Synthesis.

    Under Hegel’s theory, one type of government or society (Thesis) would give rise to another that was the opposite of this type of government or society (Antithesis). This would result in conflict between the two types since they were opposites. After thesis and antithesis ideas battle each other for an extended time without either side winning, both sides become ready for change. This change (Synthesis) is then brought about by the creation of a third type of government or society.

    These three steps are easily seen in the example of the Nazi rise to power, in which the Democratic government battled the Communist form of government. When the public was conditioned to ask for change, a new government system was installed.

    The principle is often seen at work in the downhill slide of education toward the goal of ensuring children grow up unable to be intelligent participants in their democracy.

    Step One – The federal government wants to assert control over the educational system, previously the providence of the states. As a way of doing this, the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) is created as a tool to gain power by doling out money to the school districts if they would accept the strings attached. Slowly but surely the pot of federal dollars that could be had is increased, while state support is undermined. Under ESEA mandates, academic programs are replaced by social programs.

    Step Two – As academic programs are displaced, test scores drop, and juvenile problems increase as children become more and more illiterate, and parental and public outcry becomes louder. Teachers are made the fall guys for the illiteracy of their students. Attempts at fixing the problems involve the creation of ever more social programs, and fail to address the issue of children’s failure to learn. Parents are blamed as schools make inroads into controlling the parent/child relationship by pitting parents against their own children over school issues. Education reform is officially sanctioned as Bush announces himself the education president, proclaiming that “The people have been heard. We must do something about our ailing education system.”

    Step Three – We are in step three now. Progressive socialist education is upon us. We are creating a generation of people incapable of thinking, reasoning, speaking and questioning. The individual will soon be extinct, having been stripped of his uniqueness and become no more than a commodity to be valued accordingly. With the loss of uniqueness goes the loss of independence and the ability to advocate for one’s self. The new generation emerges as a willing participant in its own enslavement.

    About the author: Barbara is a school psychologist, a published author in the area of personal finance, a breast cancer survivor using “alternative” treatments, a born existentialist, and a student of nature and all things natural.

  62. 62 Helen Newman August 2, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    Hey Jyre–

    Would you like to share specific examples of positive things that happened to you while you were at Zendik? And/or positive things that have happened since you’ve left (if you can think of any)?

    Love,
    Helen

  63. 63 Helen Newman August 2, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    And I’m still waiting for your address….

  64. 64 I vote for synthesis... August 2, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    Hey Helen… Have you talked to Kee and Avi?
    Or Raven?

  65. 65 raven August 3, 2008 at 12:05 am

    what about raven?
    my head is going to fuking explode.

  66. 66 Helen Newman August 3, 2008 at 7:28 am

    I vote for synthesis…: Sorry, I’d rather not answer those questions in public. You can email me (madgelma@hotmail.com) if you still want to know.

  67. 67 I vote for synthesis... August 3, 2008 at 8:31 am

    Hi Raven…
    Hope you’re head stays on your shoulders intact… talk to you soon…

    …hello… any comments on the article…?

  68. 68 Helen Newman August 3, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    I’m curious to know your thoughts on how the article you posted relates to the discussion being conducted here, and also what you mean by, “I vote for synthesis.”

  69. 69 Jyre August 3, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    I think it’s great…

  70. 70 El Diablo August 3, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Thesis, antitheis, synthesis– that’s the Hagelian dialetic.

    That’s what “I vote for synthesis” ostensibly meant… but they are wrong. There is no middle way with those fux. They may need bio-feedback at 2700 feet per second as XXXXXXXX (redacted) used to say.

    Hey folx it’s Lyndon here. Jyre is a fucking tool and sould no longer even be engaged seriously. Honesty is a slogan for him. He doesn’t mean it. Which is the same pathology as ol’ Zendik, which may explain his allegience to them. This ersatz honesty is their raison d’etre. The key difference between Jyre’s assertions and stubborn reality is that Zendik is not truly attempting to be honest and merely failing– they are lying on purpose and suceeding. This is central and thus is exactly what Jyre is failing to recognize or admit.

    As for Jyre– he truly and pathologically believes he’s being honest when he defends their malevolent lying as— wait for it— HONESTY! In the Orwellian milieu of zendik that kind of horseshit is indeed honesty. Slavery is freedom, duh. Re-reading Orwell would be instructive for Jyre provided he could see the meatphor through the trees. However, he just aint capable of “intellectual self-defense” and is another one of those poor souls getting the shit kicked out of them by El Duce, Arol. It’s a Stockholm Syndrome phenomena in my opinion.

    And it’s Arol and her epigones that can “feel the bony ribs of Rocinante,” under their saddles, Jyre– not us. Nice try though with the cute, and well-worn literary reference.

    ;)

  71. 71 Jyre August 3, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    OMG – Lyndon?!? thanks for the encouragement…

  72. 72 Jyre August 3, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    why doesn’t everyone lurking just ‘present’, like brave souls, and maybe this will go somewhere affirmative… not as if the language could get any meaner… lol…

  73. 73 Jyre August 3, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    Epigone – cute, thoguh definitely not a well-worn reference…

  74. 74 I Love the Deathculture! August 3, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    You know, Jyre made this point about how the world is such a horrible mean place were you are “on your own” and it’s such a dog eat dog world. My experience has been quite to the contrary. From the day I left the farm, I cannot even tell you the many, many sweet and friendly strangers who helped me: fed me, guided me, offered me places to stay, let me cry on their shoulders, and made me feel like I had rejoined the human race.

    People are so wonderful!

    If I was sitting on a streetcorner in pure anguish, not 5 minutes would pass till I had someone with their arm around me seeing if tere was anything at all they could do to help.

    At Zendik, if you’re sitting on a streetcorner in anguish, they sneer down at you and shake their heads and say you’re being “self-pitying” and that you need to get your attitude together and face up to how all of your problems are those that you have psychically manifested out of your own intrinsic evil and corruption.

    Thank you, lovely beautiful world. Thank you for being there for me when I was in the darkest hour of my life. I love you.

  75. 75 Jyre August 3, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    Glad to hear about that, I also have had those experiences, proving people are innately good. Yet… read the paper. Also occurring are atrocities you are not witnessing. Your experiences of human kindness are wonderful, but many people are capable of and actively pursuing horrific ways of reacting to their circumstances… good exists, yes, it’s the hope we build on. But can we just blithely ignore the suffering?!

  76. 76 Jyre August 3, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    and you are…?

  77. 77 Jyre August 3, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    btw… I’ve been on a streetcorner in anguish, and as people passed me by, it was
    a Zendik who cared enough to help me…

  78. 78 Jyre August 3, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    “you need to get your attitude together and face up to how all of your problems are those that you have psychically manifested out of your own intrinsic evil and corruption”.

    maybe not intrinsic? just the result of living life in a culture that is based on competiotion? remember the playground?

    OK Coach… I’m ready to get back in there!

  79. 79 Jyre August 3, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Any hugs out there?

  80. 80 Jyre August 3, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    spelling by jyrebot…

  81. 81 El Diablo August 4, 2008 at 10:29 am

    Notice how Jyre refuses to answer the more salient points. Instead he goes for the easy call & response on the fringe issues. This speaks volumes about his innate laziness and undisciplined approach to life.

    Jyre– do some push-ups, limit your food intake and address the central and well-defined issues at hand. People have gone to the trouble of being logical, rational, and disciplined in their epistles. Can you try to do the same in your rejoinders?

    P.s., an interesting anecdote here may be instructive. Jyre, while at the farm, was asked to demonstrate his physical flexiblity by bending at the waist and touching his toes. He attempted and failed, but insisted (over the objections of everyone present) he had indeed accomplished the feat. This is Jyre in a nut-shell: out of touch with reality to such a large degree as to be laughable and pathological. ;)

    Lyndon

  82. 82 Jyre August 4, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    i’ll always think of you, lyndon, naked in a cage screaming… ;)

  83. 83 Cleveland Steamer August 4, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    Wow, what a thread. Quite a bit to process. I remember a few of those stories about Jyre. I guess I am a little late to the party but I would love to throw my two cents into the mix.

    I was wondering if Kaila’s boyfriend knows it was Arol who said she couldn’t have a baby with someone who lives off the farm? Or is this a new boyfriend? Also I don’t know that I could ever recommend a place to people where one of the highest ranking people claims to have murdered two people in California. I think regardless of what you feel about the present political situation murder has been taboo for a long long time in most cultures.

    Is rape a necessity of creating a new culture? If so Zendik is on track.

  84. 84 El Diablo August 4, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    “i’ll always think of you, lyndon, naked in a cage screaming… ” – Jyre

    Lol. Yes, indeed, that is how i mostly remember my time at Zendik as well (insert: rim-shot). I was ‘clothed’ in red body paint if I remember correctly though. Heh heh.

    For the record, it was a holloween ‘haunted house’ we put on at Zendik and my costume was well… ‘less is more’ as they say.

    At any rate, my critique still obtains.

    Satan

  85. 85 Cleveland Steamer August 4, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    a very fine haunted house it was. I remember those guys that ran the army surplus place who came and they were truly haunted by that show.

    Jyre. I do think you are at a disadvantage in these discussions. I don’t think what you define as negativity is what others define as negativity. I think it is people openly stating their opinions.

    For myself, if you want to support this group of people. merry christmas, enjoy. I can no longer agree with you that they are a productive part of society in any fashion. Here is a forum of former members all stating that what ever benefit they derived from there time within the “social experiment” was more detrimental than anything. If I was a scientist I would want to take note of that. Also I have never heard of any scientist that do experiments with out having some sort of beginning and end and stating clearly something that can be measured or observed. That may not be the totally correct definition of a scientific experiment but I think I am in the ballpark and I hope my point is coming clear. I believe the argument that you and all the rest of the zendik people like to use of people not being able to hack it is a load of crap. There was nothing defined to hack. Save the world? and if you don’t do that you are a quitter? Or persue truth or is it Truth for you. Is the truth or not touching ones toes any grander that the truth of how the currents of the ocean move? How do the acres that Zendik obtained through there less than stelar ways have a greater ability to know truth.
    On another note, I find this notion that you have, of no one doing any meaningful work absolutely asine. Guess what man, If Paul Watson wasn’t out there ramming boats there wouldn’t be whales left. If the people who go out canvasing everynight didn’t raise those funds for some of these environmental orginazations. There would be no water to drink. So there are thousands of examples of people doing great work.

    Yes, there is murder and horrible things in this world. Guess what they have always been there and there is also evidence showing the world has become less violent. My experience since leaving the farm has showed me the stages and degrees in which peole and things change. I am at peace with my society. There are a million things I disagree with but I do what I can when I want to and how I choose.

    So hooray for you and Zendik and may they some day buttfuk themselves to enlightenment. My only advice would be for you and them to do more research about the uniqueness of their little “experiment” cause brother it aint new, and they should just come down off their little eco throne and try and be a part of the culture. Instead of thinking they are offering anything to it at this point.

  86. 86 Helen Newman August 4, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    Preach it, Cleveland Steamer! (And no, I have not yet wikipedia’d that term, or otherwise investigated its meaning.)

  87. 87 Jyre August 5, 2008 at 12:21 am

    And you are?.. anonymous? Cleveland?

  88. 88 Cleveland Steamer August 5, 2008 at 11:09 am

    Hey Jyre,
    I am anonymous. What does the name behind a voice mean. I would have said the same thing to you whether I knew your name or not. Let’s just talk about the things that are coming up. Address what each other is saying and move on from there. Forget this negative, positive b.s. and just deal with what each other is saying. Names are a non-issue to me.

    Can you deny that anything that people are saying about Zendik Farm is true? I can back up my statements as fact. If you disagree with people’s assesments bring forth your evidence or more voices from Zendik Farm to explain their own position. If you wish to continue with the whole positive, negative rant. I would say this forum is very positive in the greater scheme of things. Someone wanted information about this group. They are getting that information. Hence, I conclude this to be a positive. People aren’t saying what you want them to say or giving Zendiks the credit you think they deserve and they have ripped your feebly attempted defense of these individuals. Are you saying what is being said is wrong and untrue? What is your position to my question? I promise you I won’t beat any issue to death. I think you need to accept that people don’t believe as you do about Zendik Farm and that you have no right to deny their experience. That is a classic technique of Zendik Farm. To tell someone what it is they really felt. I think from what I have read here and seen first hand, people have a great grasp of what they experienced and you are out of line to label it as negative because you don’t like the tone in which people present themselves. Are you a member of the positive police? I find the issue of positive or negative to be one of perspective in this case and really irrelevant to the real issues at hand. Don’t you?

  89. 89 Cleveland Steamer August 5, 2008 at 11:55 am

    Oh yeah, Cleveland aint my location. It is an act. Try the urban dictionary for more info.

  90. 90 Jyre August 5, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    appropriate choice of moniker, seems to me…

    I just think people should represent if they’re personally upset, lobbing stones from the back is cheesy…

  91. 91 Cleveland Steamer August 5, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    Your opinion is noted and I will take it into consideration. Now, what do you have to say about the rest.

    Represent. Represent you say. I represent the poor and beaten down, livin’ in the hopeless hungry side of town. I represent the sick and lonely old, and the reckless ones whose bad trip left them cold.

  92. 92 Jyre August 5, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    I’m not zendik farm’s apologist. I just lived there ten years and still have great respect for the attempt being made. I took away from my experience there a lot of things that continue to shape my life, such as the belief that we need a culture where everyone pursues being honest with themselves and each other. It’s a lifetime process. I talk to them very rarely and usually about things I’m concerned about. I don’t like seeing the rabid smear campaign so I chip in. Sue me. Lots and lots of people had good experiences there. I don’t know who the steamer is but they only represent themselves and their own gripe. I know how shitty it is to feel like a victim, but one thing I learned there is that we are capable of looking at ourselves and understanding what’s happening to us and seeing our part in things so we are NOT victims. Hopefully, we’re always learning more about ourselves and using that info to go further in the direction we believe in going. I don’t believe I will be happier or better off if I choose to be a disgruntled angry victim…

    Before I moved to Zendik I felt that there was hope for humanity if we could just get free of fear and be honest with each other and work together to have a great life, etccc, utopia. After Zendik, I believe Utopia is just a direction, not a destination. And I don’t believe people will be free of fear in their attempt to be honest with themselves or each other. But it still has to be done. So when I look around at the groups and individuals doing work in this area I still see Zendik, with all it’s problems as being a source of hope. I still get a lot out of talking with Peiro, Kaila, Chazz, Vie, etc… even people who’ve left who still relate to the personal work. I never developed much relationship with Arol because I was too scared, and I don’t know how much is me, or how much was her, but I KNOW it is my responsibility to own up to the fact that I NEVER did deal with that or her on a real level with her, I just didn’t deal with that aspect. MY RESPONSIBILITY. I put myself in other peoples shoes and I can feel the pain they’re talking about, and i put myself in other zendik’s shoes and feel the pain of these attacks. But usually when people don’t work stuff out they just go their own way. i feel like Zendik gets blamed for mismanaging the revolution over personal stuff between people. it’s not an institution, it’s a bunch of people trying to make progress together as best they can. But because the ideals are so sweeping, the standard they get held to is much harsher than someone who isn’t claiming to be a revolutionary or save the world so it gets blown out of all proportion. I got the same criticism when I lived there and I still get it from people who ask me to lay out my experiences there. They point out the failings and say, see? it’s bullshit. Well parts may be, but not the whole and not the intention. It’s still being worked on. And when I do respond to points made here, it gets ignored anyway, so I mostly don’t bother arguing, just try to point out a bigger picture.

    Zendik exists because Wulf and Arol decided to try to build a solution to the pain and loneliness and isolation and corruption and power mongering going on everywhere. it’s still an experiment, and while I also would like to see better results i don’t think throwing the baby out with the bathwater is going to make anything better. I remember how tough it was to live there, but I don’t beieve Arol and Fawn were or are spared pain and difficulty. it’s different but similar for all of us. Things can change, people can change, new ideas can come, more progress towards the ideal can be made. That’s the hope, so I work towards that…

  93. 93 El Diablo August 5, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    I wear the black for the beaten down…

  94. 94 El Diablo August 5, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    Jyre is still missing the point. He thinks its merely personal; he thinks its merely about personal experiences (I for one had a grand time at Zendik, but that is not the point– shit, I’m having a grand time in the US– does that make the US a just place, Bush a honorable man? No it just makes me relatively sanguine and capable of having fun anywhere…). Jyre you fucking retard, this is an institutional analysis. Just like when someone says, “capitalism alienates the workers,” they are not merely critiquing the CEO of Wal-Mart.

    Zendik is a fascist, authoritarian, top-down model. The way it is set up with Arol, El Duce, and her little Rex Mundi, Fawn as the ultimate arbiters of Truth and Honesty ™ leads, unavoidably to corruption. But, dear Jyre, if you put me and/or you in a similar position, we’d be as autocratic and dictatorial as they are. The point is that the way the farm is set up– is innately unjust and full-of-shit. Arol and Fawn are both borderline illiterates– how the fuck can they “know” the kind of “truth” that will be used to decided everyone’s fate there? But they do decide everyone’s fate don’t they? Why are they even in charge of potty breaks considering their lack of intellect and genuine honesty (the charges of nepotism or just too obvious to ignore) Jesus, how can you not get this?

    How? Because you are intellectually incapable of defending yourself against tyranny. You want daddy (Wulf, Bush, et.al.) and mommy (Arol, Fawn, Dr. Laura, et.al.) to save you and tell you what to do— you and millions of people all over the world who prostrate themselves out like craven little sycophants at the feet of petty dictators. YOU fuckers are the “victims”, Jyre, not us. You and your kind are disgusting little balless retards who apologize for and justify both the institutions of repression and their cynical little leaders.

    Jyre, do us all a favor and fuck off. I am not a victim and neither are the independent and intellectually honest people who have posted here along side me. Your fucking pants are down on this point. For you to even suggest that by asserting ones independence of thought and action one a priori becomes a victim is not only asinine but fucking insulting; AKA fightin’ words. Maybe when me and your tubby ass meet one day, I’ll give you a lesson on the perpetrator/victim relationship Chinese Kun Tao style. Maybe then you’ll have an epiphany vis-a-vis –who is and is not– a victim. Lol. Asshole.

    “Almost any man can stand adversity, if you want to test a man’s character give him power”– Abe Lincoln

  95. 95 Cleveland steamer August 5, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    Well said Diablo,

    I am very skeptical however, that Jyre even wrote that post. Never before has he used such punctuation or spacing in his post here or on other forums. Just my feeling.

    Love your post Diablo. Your angry and hatred make me giggle. The force is strong within you my son.

  96. 96 Jyre August 5, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    When you are wrong, change. When you are right, try to be easy to live with… fortune cookie wisdom…

  97. 97 Tabagen August 6, 2008 at 8:29 am

    Jyre is not really showing his real identity either, are you Jyre.? Hows it going John Heffron? Jyre, remember when you thought you were Jesus reincarnate? Could you be experiencing a relapse? How about you just have a ppeppermint patty smeared in mustard and shut the fuck up? Let people have their experiences unedited. Please stop trying to take what happened away from them.

    If you are looking for the meaning of my true name follow my link:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tabagen

  98. 98 Helen Newman August 6, 2008 at 8:56 am

    Imagine this:

    You live down the street from some lady who spends most days sitting out on her porch, shouting at passersby. Her comments range from nasty but superficial (“What an ugly suit!” “You need to lose some weight!”) to nasty and intrusive (“No wonder your marriage sucks–you’d rather fuck guys!” “Maybe if you found someone to fuck you’d quit stuffing yourself!”).

    Unfortunately, this lady’s porch is on your way to the train station. And there’s no alternate route you can take. Also, you know yelling back at her will just make her nastier; it won’t shut her up. So, when you must pass her house, you cross to the other side of the street, in hopes she won’t notice you. You leave your house early in the morning, on the off chance that you’ll get to the train station before she wakes up. You could call the police on her–maybe you will, if she ever threatens you physically–but for the time being you figure your best bet is just to avoid her as best you can. And you know the things she says don’t mean anything about you in particular, since, in conferring with your neighbors, you’ve discovered that she hurls the same insults at everyone. It’s as if she keeps a grab bag of barbs in her lap, and fishes one out every time she senses human flesh approaching her stretch of sidewalk.

    Now, imagine this:

    You live in a cult with this same lady. And she’s in charge. And everyone around you acts like she’s god, acts as if every barb she pulls out of the grab bag is a flash of divine insight, or prophecy. You begin to believe that her insults actually mean something, that you had better accept her (negative) assessment of you, and try to revise yourself.

    Unfortunately, this lady holds the purse strings–and all your comrades in thrall. Which means you have no choice but to go through her, for anything you want, from a romantic relationship to a pair of socks. You do, however, have some leeway regarding how much you interact with her. After all, you’re not the only clay pigeon she keeps around for target practice–at any given moment there are at least a couple dozen others within range. So, to the extent that you’re able–as an act of self-preservation–you stay away.

    A question for my fellow Zendik survivors:

    Does this scenario sound familiar? Could it–perhaps–possibly–by any stretch of the imagination–explain why Jyre “never developed much relationship with Arol”? Why he was (in his own words) “too scared”?

  99. 99 Jyre August 6, 2008 at 9:02 am

    mmmnn… peppermint patties…

    mmmnnn…. mustard….

    ah, the simple pleasures in life…

  100. 100 Helen Newman August 6, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    Hmm…it seems that “Jyre” has renounced Zendik for Dada….

  101. 101 Cleveland steamer August 6, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    Imagine a cult where this old lady had a daughter with a fifth grade education and was then put in charge of your finances even if there were people with business degrees living there.

    Jyre, I like you man. I feel there is almost a Batman/ Joker ( see Dark Knight) type relationship between you and this blog. Without you there would be nobody to play with. I want to make this very clear to you. I am in no way, shape or form a victim of my experience at zendik farm. My opinions and statements are a coupling of several years of reflection and higher education and a few doses of psychotherapy that actually worked at helping me understand myself in a postive way. So you eat your own fortune cookie, jerky. How, if you never even knew Arol, can you take a position that people are being haters? What made you so scared? I know you say it was yourself man but I guarentee that wasn’t the thought process of image of your fear. By the way, you are Zendiks apologist. You are acting to defend their ideology. Why? Because I don’t think Zendiks can actually handle someone talking back who won’t just take it up the ass from them. The people speaking here have there own minds and the force of will to express themselves. No person at Zendik knows how to deal with that. I challenge any of them to openly debate any topic and I will state my view on the subject they state theirs etc. We can even set some mutually agreed upon rules if they can’t handle things being open. There are enough outside voices to keep it moving and from bogging down. Let me guess though, they just have to much other important work to actually engage the world.

  102. 102 Jyre August 6, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    anonymous poster… I remember you…

  103. 103 El Diablo August 6, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Thanks for the plaudits my scatological friend (I have done some weird shit, but never have I shat on someone– Jesus)– and Mr. Steaming Dump, may I extend my best wishes to you and yours.

    Look, for all my tongue-in-cheek hostility I truly think Jyre-bot is a sad fucking case of humanity. I feel sorry for him. But that only lasts as long as that sentence, and then I get angry again at his display of unearned hubris. Look if Michael Jordan wants to be cocky he can, but Andrea Bargnani, who clearly sux at basketball, should stop talking so much shit.

    Zendik Inc. and their proxies should feel about as entitled to their arrogance as Andrea Bargnani. They are irrational, mostly illiterate, and not even erudite enough to know when they are being schooled on basic Cartesian logic. Mr. Hot Steaming Dump is correct, Zendik, if they are so cock-sure vis-à-vis their superiority in matters political/philosophic/anthropological should be willing, even eager, to debate any one of us.

    However, I personally sent an e-mail to Arol throwing down the gauntlet on the topic of ‘violence’ effecting revolution. It was publishable in quality in my opinion and as inescapable in its logic as Chinese finger-cuffs.

    What was Arol’s response to this request for a dialectic? Silence, chicken-shit silence. What was Lisa Butler’s (aka Kaila) rejoinder? “Well, Lyndon, the e-mail has been a little weird lately, maybe she didn’t get it,” she said ostensibly with a straight face. I think more than the e-mail has gotten a little weird there…

    Look, these people (Zendik) are retrograde and dumb. They are insular and crypto-fascists. They won’t debate real men and women of letters with actual talent for the same reason I keep avoiding those requests for a meeting from my ex-wife’s lawyers– people know when they are outmatched.

    Zendik is laughably unprepared to battle any of us on any level. Fawn is so dumb it is painful to listen to her. This, I suspect, is what HG Wells was envisioning in his dystopic novel The Time Machine. Fawn is Wells’ Eloi manifested several millennia too soon. As for Arol, she is just a ‘day-time’ stripper extrapolated out to the logical conclusion: a petty, vapid dictator with a penchant for shiny bobbles and scurrilous men. These people shouldn’t even be in charge of their own potty-breaks much less a culture. If Zendik were anything but an autocracy—if it were a meritocracy for example– those two twits wouldn’t be in charge of anything more complicated than dry goods.

  104. 104 Cleveland steamer August 6, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    I find it really fucking funny that someone who lived at a commune where one of the first things you did was change your name gives a shit what the duck I call myself. Fine. From this day forth my name is Cleveland. Now you know who you are talking to.

    Let me send you on another walk into the twilight zone. Imagine if you will a cult. A cult living in, I don’t know…. North Carolina. This cult has a well. This well was drilled through a vein of aluminum. In this fantasy world the man responsible for getting this well drilled and the one controling the purse strings decide to tell all the people who trust their lives to them that the water is safe to drink for months before the proper filtration is put in place. What level of Hell would that be. I think in the real world they call that negligence, especially with aluminum being directly linked to so many ailments. Dementia…cleft palate. I would hate for that to come back and bite me in the ass someday…if it were true. But I am just playing make believe, right?

  105. 105 Jyre August 6, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Lyndon, did you die and get reincarnated as the new Hunter S Thompson?!

  106. 106 Tabagen August 6, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    I applaud Johnjyres restraint.!
    Many attacks and it seems the type writer has not clicked another clack of apologies for this dying CULTure.

    Operation AFAP has begun. I am glad so many have shown up to begin this deconstuction of a I = Me Me bullshit Tshirt sales team Zendik has become.

    If only Lisa Butler and Nicole Kellers Family knew the violent submission they suffer under the old maid brigade of Zendik Inc’s (thanks Satan) seething contempt for autonomy.

    I wish the Farm had opted for acceptance rather than the tight grip. I remember one time after a art showing of Marcus (revel) work he called everyone on the farm a bunch lemmings. Fawn said ” shhhh they will all hear you! ” she was laughing. I was then kicked out for one of their private meetings.
    Arol used too say the worst shit about a guy named Bradon who only wanted to help. One time when gave a hundred bucks her view was,
    ” That little rat, he creeps me out. Well, as long as they salute when we come through town.” Meaning as long as they give us money.
    I was so creepped out it must of crept in to a look and Arol in her Paranoia slammed me for liking the guy.
    She and others basically look down on all old followers from Philip Moore (raus) to old champions like Chen and Knome. I have heard and participated in the causual dismissal/slamming of someone has given their heart and soul to “the movement”. It’s sad.
    Anyway enough mush mush.
    Whats up with the “you don’t change when you leave the farm thing?”
    I know personally that Johnjyre has changed as has everyone else on the blog does daily. Does the Farm feel they have a monopoly on personal growth?
    Just another control? Or are Zendiks that dumb and out of touch with how life works?
    Was anyone else embarrased for not standing up and calling Wulf a liar for claiming to be the first guy in America to rock a earing? I am . Wow the shit I swallowed and ignored to have some sex.
    Not with wulf though. I want to be clear that I did not have sexual relation with him. However I can guarentee Wulf would have made it with the remaining girls on the farm givin new lungs and the chance.
    Another question.
    Leader of zendik, did Wulf get the teenage pussy he got because of his status or skills as a lady killer? Cause most men his age 73 when he was still banging……Not sure if he was fucking the young in Florida but I know he was in Texas back in Bastrop.
    Not sure how I feel about the old banging the young. I knew some of these girl quite well and from where I stood it would have been pretty diffiCULT to refuse him. Back at the treehouse everything was geared toward him.
    Say no and your ego is blown out of porportion… After all who are you to refuse the greatest lover on earth! I mean a grown woman would suck his dick for a hour straight. Just let it lay there in the mouth. I digress….

    Say yes to him, just say yess and if you like it (get your freak on… see missy elliot)
    your days are numbered. Arol will come and take you down for a blown ego.
    She was just jealous cause Wulf said making it with her was like sticking his dick in a “box of glass”.
    I hope her recent surgeries have helped with that….OHHHHHHH tooo far Tabagen not a woman with cancer, dude thats tooo low….
    Well considering under her leadership – aids and HIV having a causal or meaningfull realationsip did not exist.
    Since we where are all fucking each other with x needle users and anal cowboys around.
    I believe I owe her alot more insult and I hope a little injury to boot.
    When operation AFAP is accomplished we can all rest.
    Till then
    How old is too old to bang teenagers? and what does it say about you as a person if you fuck across the generational lines a few times over?

    P.S. I publicaly retract the acusation that Johnjyre was not being open with his identity. Good job staying on the truthway bro. I support all efforts on this blog.

    Love,
    Tabagen
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tabagen

  107. 107 Helen Newman August 6, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Sex, Money, Mind Control: The Zendik FAQ like you’ve never seen it at zendik.org…
    …is now available for beta-testing at:
    http://emeraldimajia.livejournal.com

    I welcome comments/corrections/requests for clarification/suggestions for additional questions.

    Enjoy!

  108. 108 Cleveland Steamer August 7, 2008 at 10:54 am

    operation AFAP

    Stop bitchin…We’ve started the revolution.

    Cleveland aka Steamy Cleve

  109. 109 jyre August 7, 2008 at 10:55 am

    I like cabbage

  110. 110 El Diablo August 7, 2008 at 9:10 pm

    “Lyndon, did you die and get reincarnated as the new Hunter S Thompson?!” — Jyre

    I insult you, threaten you, destroy your weak-ass arguments, and you… compare me to my fucking hero? Jesus, I am feeling bad and good all at once. There’s gotta be a word for that? (Ambivalence comes to mind).

    Read, The Proud Highway, by HST, kids– for a grand time. I too, swore I’d never go unarmed again…

    BTW, Anita Thompson, HST’s trailer-trash widow, and I were engaging in mostly pleasant conversation (she said I made her laugh out loud, if you can beleive that)via e-mail for some time until I sent her one of my iconographic photos of my weapons cache married to a nasty little insult-laden demarche vis-à-vis her liberal nonsense. For the record, HST was an anarchist and an outlaw, no fucking liberal, and she was and is sullying his name by launching that liberal goody-goody horseshit from Owl Farm. So, I told her so and she called the FBI and Pitkin Country Sheriff on me (and bragged about it online– type in “Owl Farm blog” into Google). Can you believe that shit? (Ed.note. “Yes, Lyndon, yes we can”).

    Further, she is so dumb that she called me a Republican (this is her political depth– if you hate pusilanimous liberals you are a priori a “Republican”– DUMB!) and said I had threatened her. I am not– nor ever have been– a Republican; and I did not threaten her. Jesus!

    In response I told her that merely sending a picture of assault rifles and other accoutrement of defense to the widow of HST is like sending Dunkin’ Donut coupons to Chris Farley’s widow. It’s a fucking love-letter!

    I further decided that for her to get so upset at me for this would be not unlike Pat Nixon calling the FBI cuz someone broke into her office in the middle of the night and stole some documents. Hypocrisy has a comical element to it, yes?

    I officially am unacceptable to everyone now. ;)

    Thanks for the plaudits Jyre, I appreciate it bro. Res Ipsa Loquitur…

  111. 111 Cinderella August 7, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    To El Diablo:
    I can’t decide if my fave post of yours is the one where you call Arol an illiterate mongoloid or the one where you state that Fawn is so dumb it is painful to listen to her. I think I am in love. Let’s get married….

  112. 112 Jyre August 7, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    Congratulations on your upcoming wedding, satan.

    nos totus have nostrum crux crucis perfero in vita…

  113. 113 Jyre August 7, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    Anybody seen the new Batman movie yet…?

  114. 114 Helen Newman August 7, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    “I just think people should represent if they’re personally upset, lobbing stones from the back is cheesy…” (Jyre)

    You do? Then how about being a tad more forthcoming with your identity when you post invective on -my- blog?

  115. 116 Jyre August 7, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    i used my lj ident. jyre

  116. 117 Helen Newman August 7, 2008 at 11:15 pm

    Hmm…not on the comment you posted at approximately 11:25pm on August 7th. It was “Anonymous.”

  117. 118 Jyre August 7, 2008 at 11:18 pm

    I see that… not sure why it doesn’t work…
    Oh, and somebody is posting using my name that’s not me.

  118. 119 Helen Newman August 7, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    From an article called “The Power Paradox,” by Dacher Keltner, published in the Winter 2007-08 issue of Greater Good:

    “Perhaps more unsettling is the wealth of evidence that having power makes people more likely to act like sociopaths. High-power individuals are more likely to interrupt others, to speak out of turn, and to fail to look at others who are speaking. They are also more likely to tease friends and colleagues in hostile, humiliating fashion. Surveys of organizations find that most rude behaviors—shouting, profanities, bald critiques—emanate from the offices and cubicles of individuals in positions of power. My own research has found that people with power tend to behave like patients who have damaged their brain’s orbitofrontal lobes (the region of the frontal lobes right behind the eye sockets), a condition that seems to cause overly impulsive and insensitive behavior. Thus the experience of power might be thought of as having someone open up your skull and take out that part of your brain so critical to empathy and socially-appropriate behavior.”

    Sound like anyone we know?

    You can read the complete piece here: http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/greatergood/current_issue/keltner.html

  119. 120 Jyre August 7, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    i give up, it keeps denying me my lj ident, different screens come up, it’s f**ed

  120. 121 Jyre August 7, 2008 at 11:23 pm

    i’d say, the majority of people we know, and those who post here…

  121. 122 Helen Newman August 7, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    Jyre: No one is posting to my blog using your name; someone is posting using your IP address. That someone would be you.

  122. 123 Jyre August 7, 2008 at 11:32 pm

    i meant here… i gave up trying to figure out why my lj ident won’t go through on your blog. i’ll just sign from now on…

  123. 124 Jyre August 7, 2008 at 11:39 pm

    do you remember when…

  124. 125 Helen Newman August 7, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    Okay, sounds good. Now would you care to tell me which half of the FAQ you believe to be true, and which half you believe to be false?

    Just so everyone’s on the same page–

    Here’s the comment Jyre posted (anonymously) to my blog, in regard to the Zendik FAQ:

    “half truth, half lies…
    but lots of effort, eh?
    100% SENSATIONAL!!!
    I wonder about the little thrill in the pit of your stomach as you write… thanks for all the hard work…
    meanwhile, life goes on…”

  125. 126 Jyre August 8, 2008 at 7:28 am

    Helen, ask your internal editor… you know what you made up, but i will acknowledge that you can’t tell when you exagerate or embellish… meanwhile, let’s remember bill hicks…

  126. 127 Cleveland steamer August 8, 2008 at 8:44 am

    Jyre, that is chicken shit. You know what you made up and what you didn’t. Still out to deny people what they experience and even moving on to outright calling people liars.

    Let me see what is made up here. Arol orchestrated what became the rape of a 15 year old girl. Forced the girl to go with this man because she was “a flirt”. The girl cried the whole fucking time and he kept raping her. The culture of compassion? People, yes the people I knew and cared for are in these very moments conspiring to lie in courts of law to deny someone access to their child. You think Exxon needs to go but not this organization. I can list for you with firsthand knowledge hundreds of thefts and countless other manipulations. Some I was even complicit in. Get your head checked if you think these people should be allowed dominon of even a single goat let alone a persons life.

    Stop being a coward. You lob your little words but don’t engage. People have put forth strong statements, accusations and facts which, if I may speak for everyone, we will prove as true. So come to the screen with your a-game and be ready to prove your case or sit down, shut the fuck up and let the adults talk.

  127. 128 Helen Newman August 8, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    Here’s the complete exchange I had with Jyre over at http://emeraldimajia.livejournal.com:

    Jyre (posting anonymously):
    half truth, half lies…
    but lots of effort, eh?
    100% SENSATIONAL!!!
    I wonder about the little thrill in the pit of your stomach as you write… thanks for all the hard work…
    meanwhile, life goes on…

    Helen:
    Hey Jyre,
    Thanks for the commentary. Feel free to be more specific, if you’d like–I’d love to know which parts you consider true, and which you consider false. Did you get the book yet?
    Love,
    Helen

    Jyre:
    you havta be kidding…
    you know you’re just regurgitating others stuff, or worse, embellishing your own memory, or even worse, making up…
    Ask your internal editor…
    jyre

    Helen:
    Jyre,
    Great! I’m glad you’re getting the hang of this saying-who-you-are thing!
    Regarding your response to my question:
    It’s a total cop-out.
    I asked you which of my statements you consider to be true, and which you consider to be false. Which do you believe to be regurgitations? Which do you believe to be embellishments on memories? Which do you believe to be made up?
    Hint: To gain credibility with your reading audience, you’re going to need to give specifics. Yup, that’s the deal, no way around it.

    [End of exchange--no response from Jyre]

    Jyre: Let’s say you’re the prosecuting attorney in a court of law, trying to prove that the defendant has perjured herself. Your strategy is to bring her to the witness stand, sneer, “You know what you lied about!” and stomp back to your seat. What verdict do you think the jury is likely to return, after this performance?

    My fellow Americans: Why won’t Jyre answer my questions? Why won’t he state, specifically, what he thinks I’ve fabricated/embellished/exaggerated? His insistence on evading engagement is clearly not going to cause the court of public opinion to convict me of perjury. So what’s his purpose?

    In Jyre’ s mind, I suppose, I am deliberately making up lies about Zendik, in order to excuse myself for failing as a “revolutionary.” He thinks that if he sprays enough invective in my direction I’ll start feeling guilty, and recant my “heresies.” He’s not making any progress towards that outcome either.

    And yet…he continues to dodge, and spew. Why? What does he fear will happen if he examines the statements I’ve made, case by case? Is he afraid he’ll be unable to marshal concrete evidence to refute them? Is he afraid he’ll have to start re-examining his own assumptions, if he can’t prove my explanations wrong? Is he terrified of “reassessing long-held attitudes and viewpoints”? It seems that he is…which confuses me, since that’s precisely what Wulf said “being an Ecolibrian” means….

  128. 129 El Diablo August 8, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    i brought bill hicks to zendik– and jyre you are banned from dropping his name here. for 30 days.

    and jyre i am divorced now– not getting married. follow along. well, maybe to that Cinderella chick, in case that is what you meant. ;)

    and jyre will not be specific because being specific requires work. so do sit-ups.

    SO jyre— has someone else been using your name on THIS site? Who would that be? Lisa Butler? Carol Von Wulfing III esquire? Jesus?

    Out.

  129. 130 El Diablo August 8, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    Ok muthafuckkers, i got me some wireless broadband connect card shit for my laptop. As I sit in my car in the parking lot of the local Apple store I am typing this—so i am 100% mobile i.e., Have Mac will travel.

    So look for my epistles-of-doom from all the cardinal directions. I will not be stopped by your terrestrial concerns! Baton down the hatches ye dogs! ARGGGGGGG!

    (Ed.note. WTF? Lyndon, all us iPhone users have had this capability for months now. Grow up! You aint sooooo special as you think!)

    Oh, well i’m excited none-the-less.

    Let’s get back to MURDER and RAPE at Zendik farm!

  130. 131 Wulf Zendik's ghost... August 8, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    “The Artist, the free-flyer, the person that dares to be mad can always go back to that madness. You cannot corner that person. That person has an instrument, has a piece of paper, has a pencil, has two dollars worth of dime store paint, has some sand on the beach… That person can always go for Truth. You cannot corner that person. You can lock them in solitary and they’ll scratch it on the wall, and if you cut off their hands, they will scratch it in their mind.”
    “So long as one desires to escape Pain, or pursue Pleasure, or evade boredom, or to be excited (just so long as these desires, to be or not to be, prevail), just so long are we Cosmically useless; powerless. There is only one cogent, power-generating aspiration: It is Truth: Truth in any form discernible and any form discoverable. Yet Truth comes to the Seeker like a thrust in the Pineal Eye and a kick in the Chakran Gut.”

    “The only political design that will work, would ever have worked, is one for an open-ended society established on a philosophy that declares that each member of the Human Family must accept absolute responsibility for the health and welfare of all things within its comprehension; you see, accept responsibility for all the stuff within the scope of its expanding objective consciousness. This is what I’ve termed Cosmic Responsibility and it’s the basis of Ecolibrium.”

  131. 132 Cleveland steamer August 8, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    I am glad to finally hear a zendik agree with me and my position. This view is exactly why I would never send a soul to zendik farm. It just really hit me you know? The cosmic resposibility of it. Keeping people from there. Before I just thought I was being an ecolobrian now I feel the true enormity of what I am doing. I must be a high born god. Thanks Wulfie for really getting it in perspective for me and taking this to a whole new level for me. Not only do I see my agenda as socially responsible I see it as cosmically responsible. I can hear the chipmunks thanking me now. They’re my touchstone you know.
    Peace out my soul brothers and sisters.

  132. 133 El Diablo August 8, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    Kim il Sung/ aka Wulfy’s ghost/ lisa butler/ who the fuck knows:

    I love these prose poems that bear, at best, a tenuous connection to both the stated internal (and thus occulted) strategy and public praxis of Zendik Inc. I love them for their irony, but also because, as our dear Steamer alluded to, our work as Anit-Zendiks is indeed the truth-way now, it is the evolved and evolving way of the artist, the truth teller, the cosmic iconoclast. We’ve usurped Larry/Wulf’s and Carol/Arol’s role they way they may have eclipsed some cynical snake-oil salesmen of the 60’s mise-en-scène on their road to Damascus.

    How? Why? It is simple in its beauty. (C)arol and Zendik Inc. are full of shit. They are not merely failing to live up to their purported aims– that would be excusable. Rather, they are consciously subverting them and pulling a long-con on the people who live there and the rest of civil society (re-read the enumerated details above one more time dear reader, it should take your breath away). They are criminals in both the letter and the spirit of the terrestrial law and Cosmic law. However, their dubiously and self-issued ‘letter of marque’ has been revoked by the new issuing authority: the bad-asses you have met here and on other sites that have the balls to enforce the new law.

    Watch out Zendik Inc– the whirlwind is upon you. This will be a guerre à outrance, and your lying and sinister dealings will be matched and augmented for their return. A full campaign of opposition to Zendik’s Tyranny is being launched as we speak. It is this Anti-Zendik campaign that is the new and legitimate TruthWay and it is this Anti-Zendik cause that will be picked up by the genuine & noble outlaws, the ones Dylan spoke of when he claimed that in order to live outside the law, one “must be honest”.

    “Holy shit” — Anonymous

    p.s. this is a (metaphorical) war of words and court proceedings, so let’s not call the FBI just yet thinking i’ve threatened anyone physically ok? I’m a little gun-shy on this for obvious reasons. good day! oh, and lock & load!

  133. 134 anonymous August 8, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    good day! lock & load:)
    i have a question.
    what exactly is it the zendiks think they are bringing to the world?

  134. 135 Tabagen August 8, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    I accept cosmic responsibility to bring the zendiks down.
    Operation AFAP.
    Anyone else in???

  135. 136 Cleveland steamer August 8, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    Good question. T-Shirts.

  136. 137 Cleveland steamer August 8, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    I am in on the operation.

  137. 138 Tabagen August 8, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    where are the real zendiks? To answer to all this..I am sick of ex zendik apologists like johnjyre and raus. Couldn’t they at least send Pieros ass on here. Or Erims fawn crissoned dick to enlighten us. Maybe he could give us the latest zendik hype so johnjyre can update his tired ass message.

  138. 139 Tabagen August 8, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    Yo steam!
    Good to hear your in.

  139. 140 Tabagen August 8, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    We know El Diablo is down with AFAP,
    How about Helen?
    100 percent sure but we outta check for sure..Whatta ya say Helen down with AFAP?

  140. 141 Chazz Zendik August 8, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    I think everyone here need so elevate to the tone.
    Do you really expect us to stick our hands into this nest of hornets?
    I am happy to address each concern if you all would just cool down a bit.
    Deal?

  141. 142 Chazz Zendik August 8, 2008 at 11:48 pm

    I meant needs to elevate the tone.
    Sorry.

  142. 143 To Chazz August 9, 2008 at 12:03 am

    No one needs to change any tone at all just for the supposedly holy privilege of having another currently zombified Arol kiss-up posting their propaganda here. No one wants to hear what you have to say, anyway. Go back to the street and bust your little hump some more! Better hurry or you won’t make your always-just-a-little-less-than-everyone-else sum of money to anxiously hand in to the authority, hoping to scrape by without a slap across the head, a week of getting chewed left and right by your supposed friends, or being banned from screwing your girlfriend. Fly away, Chad, fly away.

  143. 144 Chazz Zendik August 9, 2008 at 12:16 am

    I Understand we don’t have a deal then.Fair enough- I have time for you.
    I can tell you wish you had some real dirt on me I can tell. It’s ok- your probably just another loser fuk up on here that hasn’t been on the farm for years anyway.
    As far as the slap Arol thing, well I deserved it and it’s none of you buisness.
    Look I know you are all hurt now, let’s just get to the bottom of this, where should we start?

  144. 145 Chazz Zendik August 9, 2008 at 12:24 am

    How about with how you are slapped by your own hate oriented philosophy.
    No one was raped at zendik.
    It’s not a cult cause we can all leave when we want.
    Don’t hate us because we continue do do what you all left.
    You all hate us because we rejected you.
    Lyndon, suck our dicks. Vongs says fuck you by the way.

  145. 146 Chazz Zendik August 9, 2008 at 12:29 am

    thanks for sticking up for us jyre sorry you’ve been alone..
    Call whenever you want. Your always welcome here at zendik..
    Gotta sleep. Check back tommarow or Monday.

  146. 147 anonymous August 9, 2008 at 12:56 am

    http://jasonsear.vox.com/library/audio/6a00d4142fd2986a4700d41432529c3c7f.html
    (audio)
    we do need to get in this together, unless everybody’s happy with this bullshit economy, war, pollution, slavery, murder, record u.s. incarceration, record exxon profits, record unemployment and pointless suffering. like… when?

  147. 148 raven August 9, 2008 at 1:28 am

    This is what’s going on where I live!

    A man who authorities said was keeping weapons and military-style gear in his hotel room and car appeared in court Thursday on charges he threatened to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

    Raymond Hunter Geisel, 22, was arrested by the Secret Service on Saturday in Miami and was ordered held at Miami’s downtown detention center without bail Thursday by a federal magistrate.

    A Secret Service affidavit charges that Geisel made the threat during a training class for bail bondsmen in Miami in late July. According to someone else in the 48-member class, Geisel allegedly referred to Obama with a racial epithet and continued, “If he gets elected, I’ll assassinate him myself.”

    Obama was most recently in Florida on Aug. 1-2 but did not visit the South Florida area.

    Another person in the class quoted Geisel as saying that “he hated George W. Bush and that he wanted to put a bullet in the president’s head,” according to the Secret Service.

    Geisel denied in a written statement to a Secret Service agent that he ever made those threats, and the documents don’t indicate that he ever took steps to carry out any assassination. He was charged only with threatening Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee, but not for any threat against President Bush.

    Geisel’s court-appointed attorney declined comment. The charge of threatening a major candidate for president or vice president carries a maximum prison sentence of five years.

    The Obama campaign declined comment Thursday on the alleged threat.

    In the interview with a Secret Service agent, Geisel said “if he wanted to kill Senator Obama he simply would shoot him with a sniper rifle, but then he claimed that he was just joking,” according to court documents.

    A search of Geisel’s 1998 Ford Explorer and hotel room in Miami uncovered a loaded 9mm handgun, knives, dozens of rounds of ammunition including armor-piercing types, body armor, military-style fatigues and a machete. The SUV, which has Maine license plates, was wired with flashing red and yellow emergency lights.

    Geisel told the Secret Service he was originally from Bangor, Maine, and had been living recently in a houseboat in the Florida Keys town of Marathon, according to court documents. He said he used the handgun for training for the bail bondsman class, had the knives for protection and used the machete to cut brush in Maine.

    In the affidavit, the Secret Service said Geisel told agents that he suffered from psychiatric problems including post-traumatic stress disorder, but he couldn’t provide the names of any facilities where he sought treatment.

  148. 149 El Diablo August 9, 2008 at 1:39 am

    “Don’t hate us because we continue do do…(sic)” –Chazz

    Indeed you guys continue “do-do”; on this much we agree. Well, the scatological can hold my attention only so long.

    Chazz, buddy, let me explain the dynamic here: I have a 150 IQ and can bench press you through a wall. Now, are you sure you want to get into this with me young man? Count to ten, and really mull it over. I can’t imagine a person more at a disadvantage intellectually or physically– besides Jyre of course. lol.

    As a tip, you may want to peruse some ‘basic logic’ tomes that may be set for burning (forcing a biblio-rescue from the claws of El Duce and/or her philistine apparatchiks no doubt)–pay special attention to the chapter on ‘causality’. It is not exactly beau-geste –as our French comrades might say– for me to offer this to you, but rather, merely a way to make our dialectic palatable to anyone who may observe as I fuck your illiterate ass up.

    At any rate, you will not be permitted to make assertions sans empirical and/or theoretical evidence and then behave as though you have just ‘proven’ something. In the real world, we can laugh when husky octogenarians strippers lay baseless shibboleths on us with their unlettered and non-sequitur laden diatribes; but we won’t find the humor in it when able-bodied men do it. You’ll need your A-game Chadwick, so if there are any people at Zendik remaining who are able to read, you may want to consult them.

    For the record I would never attempt to ‘out-build’ an edifice with you as my foil. I know when I am outmatched. You do beautiful and inspiring work in that important arena. But, everything else belongs to me, bitch. Savvy?

    Tell Vong I said, “Vong, as long as you’re inside the matrix, you’re one of them. When you come out, I’ll gladly extend the hand of friendship. Until then, this shit is war motherfucker. Good luck, you punks are gonna need it”.

    Well, that about covers the opening salvo. Your turn kiddo.

    Oh, I almost forgot. I think an MMA, ‘Fight-Club’ style, battle-royal might be in order. We could sell tickets and have a grand time. I suggest the following card: any 3 Zendiks Vs. Lyndon ‘el diablo’ McLeod. No weapons at first. We’ll just do ‘any-style’ martial arts to ‘knock-out’ or ‘submission’ fights. You guys can try your inept martial ‘systems’ saddled to your emaciated frames against my Chinese Kun Tao/Indonesian silat married to 200 lbs of lean-muscle-mass-of-doom. I would be willing to travel to your neck of the woods if necessary. You let me know if you girls think it’s a money-maker.

    “You think this wise, boy, crossing blades with a pirate?” — Capt. Jack Sparrow

    Lock & Load…

  149. 150 El Diablo August 9, 2008 at 1:48 am

    Raven, that post is mere filibustering. Further, it’s a total non-sequitur. Come on, have a heart… let’s stick to Zendik Inc.

    Lyndon

  150. 151 Piero August 9, 2008 at 7:09 am

    thanks for keeping it creative raven!
    We all say hi from the farm and hope your head has not exploded!
    Reinforcements are gathering and we fully intend to expose these trumped up aligations for the negativity they meetly are.
    Way to go jyre and raven!
    Don’t listen to lyndon he is only brainwashed by ex zendiks who have nothing to do with there pent up sex drives. (Arols take not mine though I totally agree!!!)
    Let’s try and keep the conversation out of yelling mode please.
    Fight club idea six as much as the movie by the way.

    Sorry about the on Obama thing raven.
    You still remeber that he is( as all politicians are) a hack right?
    I hope that you don’t buy his phony hope.
    As we all know elections don’t matter due to pervasive corruption.
    So him dying would be no different than some kid in a ghetto.
    Let’s keep it in a true perspective.

  151. 152 Piero August 9, 2008 at 7:20 am

    enjoy your little games I have to get to the garden.

  152. 153 Helen Newman August 9, 2008 at 8:18 am

    Peiro and Chazz:

    Here are my concerns:

    First, your spelling, grammar, punctuation and logic. Do you honestly expect me to stick my brain into that mess of gibberish?

    Second, Chazz’s impoverished arsenal of metaphors–really, Chazz, we’re all quite familiar with the “nest of hornets” conceit. How about you come up with a figure of speech that Arol -hasn’t- already tossed off on her podcast? As it is you’re -this- close to convincing your reading public that you’re merely her mouthpiece.

    Third, Arol’s increasing dementia, and the danger it poses to your safety. Chazz, can you spell out for us -why- exactly you “deserved” to be hit? I know you said it’s none of our business…but you also said you’d address our concerns. You’re welcome to dispense with reality-based, scene-setting details and address the question in purely “philosophic” terms (i.e., explain it in terms of psychotic cause and effect), if that’s easier for you.

    Of course I have more questions. But I’ll pose those later, if and after one or both of you demonstrate that you are in fact willing to engage in reasoned dialogue.

    Yours,
    The Anti-Christ

  153. 154 deathkuluturedenizen August 9, 2008 at 8:39 am

    Piero and Chazz,

    Interesting that you feel you are at far enough of a distance that you can call this a game. It is not a game for me. Zendik Farm is fucking with my family– got a visit by the police last week.– and you KNOW it is all based on lies. Is this your revolution Zendik Farm? Hypocrites! Where is the truth now?

    I can only hope that some day you all get to eat your cosmic pizza!

    And by the way, I am not Siah but we do share a lot of the same genes.

  154. 155 Chazz Zendik August 9, 2008 at 9:21 am

    Helen,
    In west Virginia I had a dispute with Arol. I was disrespectful in demeanor and Arol ( my friend checked me). Most people don’t know what it’s like to to have a true friend. Just so you know I’ve hit her many with my lack of commitment to the truthway, too many times. I hope you understand..primates and revered ancient tribes have coommunicated this way when needed.
    The real question you and everyone needs to be asking yourselves is…
    Why was I never in close enough to get hit?

  155. 156 Helen Newman August 9, 2008 at 9:47 am

    Chazz,

    I must say, I’m floored by your ability to suggest, with a straight typeface, that I ought to aspire to a condition occupied by countless victims of domestic violence. (FYI: “Domestic violence” means violence inside the home. That’s what happened when Arol hit you; that’s the form of abuse you’re defending.)

    Okay, since you have in fact proven that you are capable of answering questions (if not engaging in reasoned dialogue), I’ll throw another inquiry your way:

    How do you explain Arol’s insistence on separating every Zendik mother but Fawn from her children? Is that another idea she picked up from other primates? (If so, which species?) How do you justify the trauma caused, to both children and parents, by this practice? Further, how do you justify Fawn’s exemption?

    Let’s see how many more feet you can fit in your mouth….

    Love,
    The Anti-Christ

  156. 157 El Diablo August 9, 2008 at 10:26 am

    “Don’t listen to lyndon he is only brainwashed by ex zendiks who have nothing to do with there (sic) pent up sex drives. (Arols take not mine though I totally agree!!!) Let’s try and keep the conversation out of yelling mode please. Fight club idea six (sic) as much as the movie by the way. ” — Nerd at large

    Well, where does one begin with this “hornet’s nest” of boring and unlettered admonitions? First, I am virtually incapable of brainwashing, mainly due to a fairly rigorous course in intellectual self-defense punctuated by a heavy dose of reading actual philosophers; and using my frontal lobes for more than anti-implosion devices for the ol’ skull i.e., for thinking critically. But, I imagine I am susceptible to this phenomena like anyone else. I’ll let the public decide which of us seems ‘brainwashed’.

    At any rate, as a thought experiment, one may want to engage someone they believe to be brainwashed on an issue or two. You know– to test this hypothesis. Anyway, I leave it to you.

    However, for the record, I do not need to consult with anyone before I have a thought or a concomitant action. I am the apotheosis of a free-agent as I have zero allegiance to anything and am a complete and pure nihilist. You may have some vulnerability here considering the sine qua non of being a Zendik is having to ‘run it through’ your masters before one has any impulse. If you’ll indulge me here… a Zendik diagnosing me as brainwashed is tantamount to Ahab leveling charges of monomania against the white whale (ed.note. Moby Dick may have some ‘issues’ vis-à-vis Ahab, but the whale’s motivations are mostly a mystery to the doomed captain. What isn’t a mystery is Ahab’s total lack of sanity on this issue and thus a concomitant lack of authority on the mental health of a creature he is attempting to destroy. I know you guys are dubious about reading anything but Wulf’s derivative texts but this book may have some potent lessons for Arol if one was so inclined to read the great work). Piero, I am afraid your little slave-pants are down on this one homie.

    Next, of course you “totally agree” with Arol, that’s your job. But, that pat, ersatz, Freudian sexual repression shit is boring and unilluminating. I for one am not going to enumerate my banquet-like sexual conquests here (ed.note. really Lyndon, you’ll refrain from bragging about something? Well, we’re a bit shocked); but suffice it to say that if there is one thing that is NOT pent up in me it’s my seminal fluid (enjoy the double entendre). I can’t speak for the others, but I think this probably falls under the rubric of “a swing and a miss” for your Dear Leader.

    Further, while nobody is “yelling” here except you shrill mutherfuckers, I would like to let you know that I was able to glean (despite your horribly crafted sentence structure and word choice) that you were kinda down on the idea of a pay-per-view battle of ‘wits and sticks’. I am guessing the ‘truth’ of mano y mano combat isn’t your thing– too bad the ‘truth’ of the intellectual realm isn’t your thing either; I wonder what is your thing? Maybe being a sycophant and a drone; but hey it’s natural so don’t take that as a pejorative. Some of us are alphas and some are betas. I get it. However, in light of this revelation, maybe you oughta just go back to gardening and leave this battle of wits & sticks to the alpha-males.

    Chazz, donde esta?

  157. 158 To Chazz August 9, 2008 at 11:01 am

    Your post made me laugh. I’m just pissed that I was rejected by Zendik? I’m also supposedly pissed that I wasn’t “close in enough” to get clocked by Arol? How silly.

    One detail you are very wrong about in both respects: you act like we (meaning most of the ex-Zendiks here), think Arol is special. She’s not. We don’t care whether or not we were rejected by her, and we certainly aren’t burning up with envy to get smacked around by her… because she’s nothing special. She’s just a tired old fat failure of an actress with a cliche nosejob and a few pop anthropology books in her library that decided to start a cult with an old pervert since she didn’t want to work for a living. Of course she has to do the whole save-the-world bit to conceal her shame: that her main squeeze wrote songs and a novel about how he wanted to diddle his preteen daughter… his epic “art” about how badly he wanted to take his little 12 year old’s virginity.

    Nope, we’re not jealous. Wulf was a sicko and Arol’s just a hack. Next?

  158. 159 Chazz Zendik August 9, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Helen and co,
    If I recall most of you were in on some these “separations”.
    But sure it’s easy to leave that out on your Monday morning QB show.
    As far a Fawn goes, let’s not bring her into this. Born a Zendik, she is not imbued with the mal conditioning on parenting that everyone else has. That’s why Zoe suffered the same as everyone else in that regaurd. Sorry but not everyone is equal here. You have to EARN your place in the Family here.
    Domestic violence huh! Very clever yet the public will make their own opinions. You’ll lose in the end.
    Lyndon I can build a house around your little logic that you’ll never escape. Good luck!

  159. 160 El Diablo August 9, 2008 at 11:54 am

    “I hope you understand primates and revered ancient tribes have coommunicated (sic) this way when needed.
    The real question you and everyone needs to be asking yourselves is…
    Why was I never in close enough to get hit?” — Victim at large

    I understand violence is necessary and does indeed work. Shit, I’ve been saying that for years. In fact, I put that very point to Arol herself vis-à-vis revolution, to no avail of course. This is the central difference between honest people and grifters, Chazz: the honest man will admit when their philosophy is inconsistent and in need of change. The con-man will just pretend they didn’t hear the question and move to the next town.

    If you are saying violence is natural and even justified (again, I agree with this conceit), then why not ethically employ it to effect revolution? Not an easy thing to vivisect is it? Well, just ignore it then; I hear land in Alaska is still cheap. Lol.

    As for the creepy and innate weakness of your “I deserved it” (see: Bill Hicks vis-à-vis domestic violence for a hoot) argument coupled with the pathological ‘you guys should be so lucky as to get beaten by a fat chick’ argument, Helen, our diabolical firebrand and logical Paladin, has succinctly laid it out for us already. You are asking us to desire to be not only an emotional and intellectual victim of Arol’s crypto-dumb autocracy, but to pine for the physical coercion and violence of that type of regime as well. My, god, surely you are joking. Well, joking doesn’t come easily to the irony-free zone resting at the seat of the mind of the fundamentalist, so ostensibly you are 100% serious (well 100% ‘earnest’, at least– the distinction will not be lost on the readers I am sure).

    Well, Chadwick, I am an open minded guy (proof of this you ask? I went to Amsterdam a few years back with a 1000 Euro and one change of clothes and returned flat broke, down to the clothes I had on my back, merely carrying mycelial memories, a couple of new tattoos and an idiopathic Tinnitus that stayed a week longer than my antibiotics regimen for that non-related rash did), if you are so into getting beaten for a saucy mouth, I can let my business handle itself for a few days and get on an airplane. If a “true friend”, as you say, is willing to strike you for your insolence, shit Chazz, I’ll be your friend. I’ll be a friend to Zendik Inc. writ large. Maybe Arol needs a friend? ;)

    If these are the terms, I feel like I could be the friendliest guy on earth. At any rate, I think we should see if we are able to acquire a promoter and official sanction from the state of Virginia for the bout. But I need to your approval before we can move forward with this event. Remember, any 3 Zendorks Vs. Me…

    I put the F U in fun.

    Diablo

  160. 161 El Diablo August 9, 2008 at 12:13 pm

    “Lyndon I can build a house around your little logic that you’ll never escape.” Chazz

    Well, kiddo, please do so.

    Here’s a literary critique: your metaphor is interesting in that you chose to use an edifice trope– I give you credit for that; it is kind of clever given your genius in that arena (sincerely). But the metaphor ended with a bit of a thud, and here’s why. It isn’t really all that effective to say I’ll “never escape” your ‘house’. Ostensibly a good carpenter would build a home with fire exits at least, and probably easily located doors for egress. Maybe you could say, you’ll build a ‘prison’ of logic or a Lorenz water-wheel of logic from which I’d never escape. Or stick with the ‘house’ vehicle and say you’d build it so well that I’d recognize it’s innate functionality and beauty and never want to leave.

    Look, I’m trying to help, but you are making it difficult with your lack of erudition and banal notions of riposte. Like I said, maybe you should take a moment to fatten up your impoverished reasoning and literary skills. Take your time.

    Oh, and maybe you should try actual discernible points in your anemic rejoinders. You know?

    L

  161. 162 raven August 9, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    lyndon, what the fuck is non-sequitur? sorry, i’ve already spent hours trying to figure out what all the other big words you use mean.

  162. 163 raven August 9, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    oh yeah, go ahead and get as nasty as you want with me- that’s why we’re here right?

  163. 165 raven August 9, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    i don’t really give a rat’s ass about obama, i just find it interesting that somebody from my small town wants to kill him. i keep trying to not give a shit about any of this but it keeps showing up right in front of my face. just like when i cried after i read the news article about a hopeless mother drowning her kids in a river, later finding out it was a dear friend of mine’s sister-in-law.
    fuck it. why does anybody care about anything, what’s the point?

  164. 166 To Chazz August 9, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Fawn was born clean of the terrible corruption everyone else is guilty of.. and no one is equal, we have to earn our place in the capital-F “Family”? OMG, is that the creepiest shit on the planet or what??? That’s some Manson Family shit right there! That is CREEEEPY!!! I wonder if they’ll all drink kool-aid soon.

  165. 167 El Diablo August 9, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    “lyndon, what the fuck is non-sequitur? sorry, i’ve already spent hours trying to figure out what all the other big words you use mean.” – raven

    “Company leader to Raven, come in Raven” – First Blood

    Well, I suggest typing ‘non-sequitur’ into google. But essentially it means a point that doesn’t follow from a stated premise or something that just doesn’t make any fucking sense. See, we are all talking Zendik and you come in and start yappin’ about Obama. It doesn’t follow very well, and thus— is a non fucking sequitur.

    As for all those other “big words”, let me just say, that I wasn’t born knowing those terms (or any terms at all) but have added them to my quiver through fairly assiduous (and fancy) book-learnin’. I suggest that an organic increase in one’s vocabulary augments their ability to understand and explain the world in which they live. Think of it as more colors your TV can use to bring you Monday Night Football: the more colors the more life-like the image.

    The more accurate and specific language I have, the more complete and vivid the picture I have in my head of the phenomena I am either learning or imparting.

    I will not “get nasty” with you as you have not warranted it yet. Chazz and Jyre got what they deserved (and that weasel Piero too) because they were rude to myself or others first.

    I mean Chazz instructed me to fellate him for cryin’-out-loud– in typical 8th grade fashion btw, after asking us to elevate the discussion… hahahahahaha (cough, cough, hack, weeeze, ahem. ha.)

    So, anyway, me and you are cool for now. ;) Let’s just keep the topic germane to Zendik if we can…

    “fuck it. why does anybody care about anything, what’s the point?” — Raven

    Now, this is my point exactly. Let it all burn. ;)

  166. 168 El Diablo August 9, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    “If I recall most of you were in on some these “separations”.
    But sure it’s easy to leave that out on your Monday morning QB show.
    As far a Fawn goes, let’s not bring her into this. Born a Zendik, she is not imbued with the mal conditioning on parenting that everyone else has (jesus this isn’t even a sentence). That’s why Zoe suffered the same as everyone else in that regaurd (sic). Sorry but not everyone is equal here. You have to EARN your place in the Family here.
    Domestic violence huh! Very clever yet the public will make their own opinions. You’ll lose in the end.
    Lyndon I can build a house around your little logic that you’ll never escape. Good luck!” -Chad

    Look, I had to re-post this because it is just too rich to let slide. Notice, gentle reader, that all of Chad’s sentences are mere assertions, not one of them is buttressed by evidence of any kind.

    Second, notice how he thinks he’s dodging guilt by merely casting a wider net over the ‘guilty’ catch i.e., he’s saying, implicitly, “yeah what we do is immoral, but YOU DID IT TOO!” This is not exactly a compelling argument.

    Next, he recapitulates the charge and adds a one-word onomatopoeia-style response as sufficient; to wit: ‘domestic violence HUH!’ (my emphasis). Well, may it please the court, the defendant has offered his rebuttal and it is “HUH!” Case fucking closed then, I guess.

    Now the real joke comes at the end. After all these child-like non sequiturs in which each sentence (well, collection of words really) is born independent of the one before and after it—here he addresses me specifically and says he can build a house of logic from which I’ll (cue macabre music & lighting) “never escape”. If this retarded post of his is any indication of his talents in this regard, I must say, I can’t imagine him being able to build a door-stop of logic. To strain this metaphor even more, all I see on Chad’s work site (where he’s building this house of logic) is scattered lumber; a bunch of monkey’s hammering anarchically and impotently on 2×4’s; and Chad himself gluing his feet to the sub-flooring.

    I fear for all of us if this is what passes for logic in the society of the future brought to us by Zendik Inc. ™ It’s a good thing they are as inept and ineffective as they are evil. Some crazy shitheads actually get shit done, like our current crop of evil and stupid political leaders. I wish the Bush administration was half as ineffectual as Zendik Inc. but unfortunately those guys actually produce results…

    L & L

  167. 169 Piero Zendik August 9, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Look everyone , chazz told me that your not ready for his energy.
    To be honest I would rather do this than weed the garden so here’s
    Where you get me.
    I reckon that all of you where people I liked and still do.
    Just change the tone, have a little huddle amonst yourselves and pick one subject for me to clear up for all of you.
    I await the honor of adressing your concerns.

  168. 170 Piero Zendik August 9, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    el diablo,
    Word is on the farm that you are a Zoe wanna be with your tattoos and car designs.
    I never met you but here’s a little logic for you.
    Lyndon gets most of his info from the hearsay of others.
    Hearsay is not admissable in court.
    Therefore lyndon if full of it.
    Modus Ponens bitch look it up!
    Where are the real ex zendiks anyway?

  169. 171 Tabagen August 9, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    Chazz and Piero,
    Well, wow.
    Welcome, welcome to our nightmare you all still live. I am just glad we are awake from the control you once weilded on us. Well not piero, sorry dude.
    At any rate, AFAP is in full effect now. Is Helen down, still need confirmation.

  170. 172 Tabagen August 9, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    I’f rev was such a sensitive artist. Why did be tear Arols pussy?

  171. 173 A Real Ex-Zendik August 9, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    So, am I the only one that is clueless as far as what Operation AFAP is?

  172. 174 Tabagen August 9, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    since you have not posted yet I am not sure your ready AFAP!
    Prove you are a real ex zendik.

  173. 175 jyre August 9, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    Here’s a suggestion: Helen is upfront, Lyndon is upfront, Neyci was, raven was, I am, Chazz and Peiro are, but the silliest nasty stuff comes from anonymous posters. it would be good for the folks who want to actually have a back and forth with zendik (now available here so far) to just say who they are, zendik names, whatever. You want to get specific and get responses, so just take a chance and stand forth. this is a good oppurtunity to get somewhere if there’s real stuff to deal with, which I do understand may be too personal for a public forum.

    this isn’t a competition, you guys all lived there or supported the idea of zendik because you care, as we all do, about humans, and the possibility of Zendik being a source of progress towards an ideal culture. You obviously care enough to jump in here and sling. saying who you are is a chance to engage as equals online, but slinging from undercover won’t create a better situation for you or anyone who cares here.

    what does AFAP stand for…
    Association of Freaks who are Awfully Pissed?
    Awkward Friendless Assholes in Pain?
    Always Fighting A lot of Punks?
    American Federation of Alienated Pleasure-seekers?
    Any Fucking Alcohol Pleases me?
    All Fun Absent Perennially?
    Awesome Future Alliance Possibilities?

  174. 176 Helen Newman August 9, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    Tabagen,

    What does AFAP stand for? As Fast As Possible? I think I’m down with it…but I can’t pledge my loyalty to a cause whose acronym I don’t understand.

  175. 177 jyre August 9, 2008 at 9:05 pm

    Hey Tea baggin’,

    how about :

    Applause For A Phony?

  176. 178 jyre August 9, 2008 at 9:06 pm

    Helen,

    What do you pledge your loyalty to?

    BTW… book has arrived… thanks…

  177. 179 jyre August 9, 2008 at 9:17 pm

    I went down the road and the road got muddy
    Stubbed my toe and my toe got bloody
    Are you all here

    I went up the hill and the hill got steeper
    Tried to climb higher but I just sank deeper
    Are you all here

    Day turned to night and the night got colder
    I lay on the ground and my body got older
    Are you all here

    I went down the road and the road got longer
    I found my way and my way got stronger
    Are you all here

    Don’t tell me which way the wind is blowin’
    I already know and I’m gonna keep goin’
    Are you all here

    Nobody loses, nobody wins
    Nobody’s out and nobody’s in
    I love my life and I love my friends and I don’t know what’s around the next bend…
    Are you all here…?

    - lyrics from track 3 of Jyresong CD

  178. 180 Tabagen August 9, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    Awesome johnjyre!
    Isn’t cool that you will be able to record that if you want.
    Nice to be away from the revolutionary art police ehh?

  179. 181 Tabagen August 9, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    ohh wow .. Away From Art Police.
    AFAP sisters meaning.

  180. 182 jyre August 9, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    Tea baggin’,
    do you do music or art?

  181. 183 Helen Newman August 9, 2008 at 11:57 pm

    Dear Peiro,

    As you probably know, Zendik has a double standard when it comes to providing health care for its members: Arol uses the money you make selling to procure treatment for herself and those closest to her; she does not use that money to procure treatment for you and the other sellers. Here’s an example of this double standard at work: A few months ago Zoe lost part of his finger in an accident in his shop; the group paid the costs of his care. Around the same time you had to be transported to the emergency room in an ambulance because you were choking on a piece of meat; after the emergency was over, you were pressured to come up with funds to pay for the ambulance.

    My concern is that you were treated unfairly in this situation. You go out selling every weekend; you turn all the money you make over to Arol or Fawn. You have neither another source of income, nor the option of developing one, since you spend all your time engaged in farm activities. It seems to me that if you give all your energy to Zendik, and don’t draw a salary, the “non-profit” entity ought at least to provide for all your needs. Clearly, the funds are there, since they were available in Zoe’s case. Why did the group choose to finance his medical care, and not yours?

    Hugs & kisses,
    Auntie Christ

  182. 184 Helen Newman August 10, 2008 at 12:04 am

    Dear Jyre,

    I love the lyrics to your song; is there any way I’d be able to listen to them set to music, for example, on a MySpace Music page? I still have fond memories of the ditties you composed and performed for us at the farm. They were always a treat.

    You’re welcome for the book. I’m glad it arrived safely, and I hope you enjoy reading it. Don’t forget to tell me what you think!

    In answer to your question: I pledge my loyalty to trochees, iambs, dactyls, spondees, and anapests.

    Love,
    Helen

  183. 185 Cleveland Steamer August 10, 2008 at 12:26 am

    Hey Jyre I’ll represent who I am when you represent your real reasons for wanting to know. I realize some here aren’t in the know and I apologize for the mystery but Jyre is full of shit. He has a very specific reason for wanting to now and shame on you. I understand that you have mixed up loyalties Jyre, but drop it. It isn’t going anywhere.

    Chazz, what the hell man. Dude, no need to go down with the ship. Just hang on til the housing market changes and will get you outta there buddy.

  184. 186 Cleveland Steamer August 10, 2008 at 12:28 am

    Jyre,
    If you still need to know who I am. Call my cell
    1(212)eat-shit

  185. 187 Helen Newman August 10, 2008 at 12:44 am

    It’s too bad Chazz departed so precipitously. I wanted to ask him to clarify his “answers” to my questions regarding the separation of mothers from children.

    For one thing, I can’t figure out whether Chazz supports the practice of mother-child separation or not. He seemed to be defending it, and yet, in accusing us ex-Zendiks of sharing in the responsibility for said separations, he implied that there was something unsavory about them. If he wished to apportion credit, rather than blame–if he thought these separations were just great!–he would have said something like, “Hell yeah, we pulled those mothers away from their children! What a blast that was! And you guys were right there with us, supporting the winning team!” So I’m wondering what his deal is, you know?

    I also wanted to ask him what these two sentences mean, in relation to each other: “Born a Zendik, [Fawn] is not imbued with the mal conditioning on parenting that everyone else has. That’s why Zoe suffered the same as everyone else in that regaurd” [sic]. Did he mean that Zoe suffered because Fawn was such a good parent? Did he make a cutting and pasting mistake? I’m confused…I was hoping Chazz could clear this up for me.

    Finally, I was wishing Chazz would take another crack at answering the questions he didn’t get to:

    How do you explain Arol’s insistence on separating every Zendik mother but Fawn from her children?

    How do you justify the trauma caused, to both children and parents, by this practice?

    And I wanted to thank him for explaining Fawn’s exemption from the separation rule. One out of three ain’t bad, Chazz!

    It’s too bad he ducked out before we really had a chance to get a dialogue going…I’ll miss his insights….

    Peiro, can you go get him from the garden? Or Georgetown?

  186. 188 Cleveland Steamer August 10, 2008 at 12:45 am

    Your loyalty is amazing Jyre. This group of people denied you everything yet you won’t even admit what you know to be true in this blog. Hell, you won’t even say what you think to be false. You are asleep at the wheel man and this time there isn’t any water barrel to wake you up.

    Look at what is being said about this “culture”. I like your lyrics but come on, man. Grow a pair and answer at least three questions that have been asked of you. Like the half truths you think Helen wrote or…I don’t know pick something. There are very clear lines drawn here and I find myself on the opposite side from you. So, you could tell me my farts smell like roses and I am not going to let your weak ass arguments slide. Can you handle that? Can you take fifteen minutes and articulate your thoughts about what has been asked? Or would that completely crumble your defense of these sick bastards?

  187. 189 El Diablo August 10, 2008 at 3:14 am

    “Word is on the farm that you are a Zoe wanna be with your tattoos and car designs.” — Piero

    This is so retarded that I am dubious anyone on the farm really even thinks this is true. However, it must be addressed. Piero, you emaciated little dork, you realize I had tattoos and a muscle car BEFORE I came to Zendik (although I was light one muscle car by the time I left—heh heh –you guys got me on that one)?

    You insular little dorks realize that I have designed most of my own tattoos and they are professionally done and thus are higher quality pieces of xxxx (art) than the scratcher nonsense Zoe has all over his body? I mean, Zendik tattoos are just terribly done and as unprofessional and low-brow as everything else there.

    You realize also, that a lot of people have tattoos and Zoe has not started some trend in this regard right? (Jesus, you guys oughta get out more; I guess you really believe Wulf was the FIRST cat to “rock an earring” too, huh?)

    Further, my crew and I build clean, high-tech, bad-ass cars and bikes—shit that is superior in everyway to ZOE’s stick-welding Paleolithic oeuvre of retrograde crap. Even in his wildest, meth-fueled dreams, Zoe aint building my machines. My designs and projects are in industry magazines, at hot-rod shows, and are in general fuckin’ shit up around the hot-rod scene. I do have a web page, but it is being re-tooled right now. Vong has seen it, so he can verify– if he’s in the mood to be truthful. However, Piero, if you give me your email address I’ll send some pix of my work. I’m sure you’ll feel overwhelmed with regret for sticking your foot in your mouth on this subject once you see the evidence of my work. (as an aside, until the web site is up again, anyone who wants to see pix of the work I do, can give me an email address or visit me on Facebook).

    You fuckers are so outmatched and you have the balls to pretend I am some ersatz facsimile of ZOE? Zoe would kill (whoops) to create even half the first class rides I build every day.

    Piero, If you knew how embarrassing it is to even suggest that a guy that is doing work 1000 times better than Zoe is somehow attempting to BE ZOE, you would just unplug your PC right now, and apologize to Zoe for making him look so foolish in public.

    You know, when I was on the farm I really liked Zoe, and for the most part he treated me really well. But, Piero, you have no idea how far the student has evolved past the teacher on this one. Take one look at the 2007 Flat Black Ink corp. Chopper for just one example and tell me Zoe could even come close. Zoe wouldn’t even have the balls to posit that he could do better.

    You guys have some talent in some limited areas, but do not think you can start telling me my business. Son, I run my own show and do it at a very high level. Is this really your A-game? You wanna critique my assertions, go for it, but your clumsy, ad hominem attacks are just making you look even dumber than I though possible.

    As for the rest of your nonsense:

    ” I never met you but here’s a little logic for you.
 Lyndon gets most of his info from the hearsay of others.
 Hearsay is not admissable (sic) in court.
 Therefore [L]yndon if full of it. Modus Ponens bitch look it up!
” – Piero

    Jesus, this is as clunky and unintelligible as it is sophomoric.

    To wit: I do get some of my empirical info via ‘hearsay’, this is true. However, the primary sources of this info are posting right next to me—so you’ve won a kind of Pyrrhic victory on this point. Not that you have a clue what I mean. So what, if my regurgitation of this shit is hearsay and thus inadmissible in court? I am not going to be involved in any legal proceedings at all. I am posting for kicks. However, the primary sources will be able to testify to the veracity of these charges and so you are right back where you started: Fucked. Win the battle lose the war on that one. Typical Zendik bravura while their pants are down.

    Next, I need not “look up” your Latinate syllogism. It’s basic mathematical logic and while you may have “never met me” (how this was relevant is god’s own private mystery) you seem to have never met a clunky display of erudition you didn’t like! Again, while technically true (it is X->Y … if X then Y logic) the larger point you made is mired in stupidity. Who cares if some of my examples are hearsay in this non-legal forum especially since those primary sources are posting right next to both of us Piero? Are they true or not is the relevant question. If yes, then my logic and empiricism still obtain. If not, then show me how and where they are false. Merely asserting that I’ve surreptitiously acquired my examples from shady primary sources is not the same as denying the charges. Further, those primary sources are on this very site you dumbass!

    Lastly, 90% of the rest of my posts are theoretical framework constructs and are valid or not based on their innate architecture. Why are you ignoring this shit and merely pointing out the irrelevant and inane? Oh, yeah, cuz you’re incapable of addressing the genuine issues, that’s right…

    And Piero, when you call a man “bitch” you better be prepared to say that to his face. I, consequently, am always prepared to face a man whom I’ve insulted, as I, admittedly, am a frequent user of the ad hominem attack. But, I just wanted you to know the rules of engagement kiddo; there are rules to life, and I’m a little nervous for your ill-equipped ass. Sleep tight. ;)

  188. 190 jyre August 10, 2008 at 10:22 am

    Whilst there are many good people, cooperative people, dedicated people doing great things in many places in the world now and in the past, the reality of Wulf’s words still strike me as true. I have too many friends and neighbors who are suffering, and I read too many accounts of the shitty competitive ways these people i care about are going to continue to spend precious energy just struggling to pay for a constrained existence, AS WELL AS MY OWN EXPERIENCE, to dismiss the Zendik community.

    Most people know or have been the person who had a messy acrimonious breakup in a relationship, or family squabbles that escalate into mutual antagonism. It’s painful to watch – when you care about both people or sides…

    That’s my impression of what’s going on here. . .

    “Truth is What is and What Is is all there is. The unfolding “What Is” constantly reveals our Evolutionary Path—thus the only valid intellectual pursuit is the Pursuit of Truth. The only valid activism one may pursue is the application of Truth—for Truth is not that “intangibility” in the mythological aTonality of mysticism. Truth is the Real, indeed, Truth is the Real of Air and Earth; the Real of Pain and Laughter, of Birth and Death—Truth is “What Is”—Truth is the Real of the nightmare. Truth is the Real of Seeing and Hearing and Touch—all of it. Truth is the blindness and the stumble of insensitivity. Truth is the poise of class and the grunt of crudity. . .

    I say that Capitalism & Communism have failed, that they’ve placed the interests of Man—abstracted into and symbolized by commerce—placed the Economic interests of Man over the Wholistic Plan of Nature.

    The only political design that will work, would ever have worked, is one for an open-ended society established on a philosophy that declares that each member of the Human Family must accept absolute responsibility for the health and welfare of all things within its comprehension; you see, accept responsibility for all the stuff within the scope of its expanding objective consciousness. This is what I’ve termed Cosmic Responsibility and it’s the basis of Ecolibrium.

    How are we going to get to Ecolbirium? By giving up the competitiveness of one-against-everybody-and-everything — by actually discarding the whole competition system, the whole system that’s destroyed every family situation: turned parents against children, children against parents, sibling against sibling, man against woman. That’s anarchy for you, that’s all this stupid competitive free enterprise system has engendered — it flies right in the face of what Humanity really is. We’re a communal, familial animal. And whatever we have achieved of worth was because somewhere down the line we’ve worked together. It’s how our ancestors survived, long long before there was money, long long before there were governments. Just brilliantly evolving creatures, brilliant creatures working together, just like the coyotes and the wolves. I mean they conquer game that outweighs them 100 to 1, and they do it as we did, by comradeship, by teamwork, by working together, by caring for each other — and they survive without polluting or contaminating — that’s a natural Ecolibrium Consciousness, that’s Communalism.

    Now, learning to be competitive is not negative to most people in society, learning to be competitive is an honorable and highly respectable form of cannibalism—it makes you a strong person: master it and you can be president of your class or of the United States. You can do these things if you learn to be competitive. And other human creatures who have cultivated this way of avariciousness will admire you, eulogize you, “That person really knows how to compete. He’s a winner!” I was raised that way, we were all raised that way.
    So, everyone raised in our winner/loser society, who hangs with it, is looking for an edge—they have to if they’re going to ‘make it’—and once in a while an exceptionally tough–minded determined competitor comes along and gets into magic or some form of power sorcery and begins to use that in their career, learning how to compete with it, dramatically enhancing their competitive drive with it, because they want that extra edge, and what happens is that they become monster killers in business or statecraft, tycoons or dictators or whatever, and ultimately die the lonely or violent death of such monster killers, which is precisely what happened to Adolf Schicklgruber, you see. Seeking absolute power, he got hooked on magic and he did the rituals and put them on the national podium; not that he saw this as a device for evil but he saw it as a device with which to render himself lethally competitive, a device with which to excel, to achieve, to win—and then he wanted the whole nation to excel and achieve and win and he needed financing for arms and the awesome military he envisioned and of course he got it from the international cartels—who, unlike himself, did not eventually find it necessary to blow their brains out, quite simply because their magic was untainted by idealism or racism or patriotism or humanitarianism, and certainly not tainted by Cosmic Concern—their magic was purely black, much more so than his, and that’s quite an indictment. I don’t mean that they were necessarily into classical magic, but I can tell you the ultimate magic is total commitment—such totality that one’s Life, itself, becomes the ritual of that commitment—and when that commitment is Cosmically malevolent, the magic is black.

    There’s no difference between those monsters who backed Hitler and their contemporary counterparts. For instance, there is a group that I’ve been most interestedly studying; it calls itself the International Monetary Fund, a gang of ultra–sly monsters who are playing the ultimate money game. They’re the insurance group for the banks of the world. I mean this is a group of individuals, citizens of different nations, but they wear the same grey suits and they ride in the same stretch Mercedes and they have the same bodyguards and they meet and they loan Brazil $70 billion or more. That means they own Brazil—which means those with sufficient power to do anything about it, are basically unconcerned that people are starving in Brazil—why? Because Brazil is playing the money game with these black magicians; it is black magic on the grand scale. These diabolical desperados with their slim attache cases, steel-rimmed glasses and their ultra conservatism and Rembrandts hanging on velvet covered walls—beyond riches—the governments work for them; they are the world, the world of men; they are not the source of power, they are the power. All the governments are up to the nostrils in hock to them, including this government. They own the essentials—the elements of the world. The only thing they don’t own is—if you’re very intelligent, very innocent—is a portion of your spiritual gut known as the Soul, the Anima Self, which can survive only if you’ve retained a precious (though apparently not priceless) portion of your mind, retained a portion of objective consciousness yet untainted. I’m talking about a place within the Self to which you may learn access through a certain kind of meditation—I call it Meditrance. And within Meditrance exists the possibility of a pristine overview, I call it Cosmic Contemplation.
    And when from this untainted vantage you look at what’s happening, at the spoiling and polluting of the world and the hate and the nuclear rockets poking up everywhere and the starvation—children with bloated bellies dying next to fields that are cultivated. And you see the reason they are starving surrounded by fields that are cultivated is because the traditional sustenance crop is no longer economically realistic and a product for export is growing there—because the government of that Third World nation is in bondage to these money monarchs, these International Money Funders and World Bankers who own and run the world—do you understand? And what they want out of that indebted enslaved country is what is negotiable in the chess game of international commerce and so the people plant what they are told to plant and they mine and drill where they’re told to mine and drill and there is absolutely no humane concern for their welfare or survival.”

  189. 191 jyre August 10, 2008 at 10:35 am

    they go on insuring and financing the world banks, loaning money to all the different countries, the guys who play the international economics game with uranium and wheat and tankers and all of it. The gigantic game. If people die, it’s not the issue. They’re righteous. They stand righteous and noble about what they’re doing.

    Paul Getty sucked as much oil out of the Earth and caused as much pollution as anyone and for rationalization he said, “I created employment, made a lot of jobs.” What’s a job? What the hell is a job? I heard Norman Cousins use a word “joblessness” as a basis for deep depression. It turned my stomach. How sociologically superficial can you get—we’re up to our nostrils in the sewage of this corporate–run deathculture with its hold on humanity so complete that finally it controls all employment, or lack of employment, and somebody’s coining a term “joblessness”. I’m getting to despise that word, job, it’s such a political plumb. A job had better damn quick become what you do to insure ultimate survival. No more can a job be writing ad copy or working on an oil rig or making an entertainment movie or working in General Motors’ plant grinding out Pontiacs—and the lack of a job can’t be so politically insignificant as, “Shit, I got laid off,” and hanging around unemployment lines or standing around the corner wishing you could go somewhere but you’ve got no gas for your pickup. A job can’t anymore be just plugging in—that’s not what it has to be now—it has to be beyond survival within their stupid economic system, it has to be what you do to insure the ultimate survival of yourself and yours and all the stuff of the world that sustains the Life of yourself and yours. And that will have nothing to do with artists selling their talent to this stupidity, nothing to do with punching in and out, overtime, raises and layoffs, nothing to do with just making a living, earning wages, working for the Big Corporate Man—and that’s always who you’re working for.

    We can beat the job merchants. We can become a nation of people who don’t export or import anything. We certainly don’t have to import anything into the United States to survive. Tell me what we, of Native American heritage, what we imported other than horses, and the Spanish invaders brought them and we didn’t buy them. We don’t have to play the international currency game to survive. The first nation, I don’t care if it’s some little island state somewhere, that says, “Sorry! We’re not playing the international economics game anymore! You money people are fiends, you are self–conjured demons, we’re not going to subject ourselves or our children to that game anymore because that game has never worked and the game is not going to work.”

    The money game doesn’t work Cosmically—it didn’t work a hundred years ago, it didn’t work a thousand years ago, it didn’t work two thousand years ago when Christ was razing the temple and said, “Get out, you guys.” And who was he talking about? The Money Changers. And that’s who I’m talking about—the money changers such as the International Monetary Fund: they didn’t get out—they got Him nailed and now they own the world; they’ve hired every politician right down the line, hired them to perpetuate their ideology. And anybody who’s plugged her or his survival into this commerce shares that ideology and envies and respects the successful competitors because they practice the actual religion of the world. Money. And the world is run by these High Priests of the Money Monarchy. They can buy the premier or dictator, because he wants a heavier slice of international trade, and they do it. They can buy a U.S. president every four years, and they do it, and they always have done it and unless we pull the currency carpet out from under them, they always will do it. But Cosmically they’re abysmally dumb—as I’ve said elsewhere, acid rain falls on Palm Beach, falls on the Riviera, falls on Paris, falls on Beverly Hills, falls on their children—they don’t put it together. It’s their religion, you see. You can’t talk Cosmicality to those people because they’re Black Magicians of world economics and their Souls are long sold to it. They practice the real religion of the world. I don’t care whether they’re Catholic or Protestant or Moslem or what color their skin is—whatever they are, whatever they call themselves, their real religion is precisely the same as it is for any creature—it is Survival, raw Survival. I’m not referring to what these people pay lip service to, nor what public image may surface out of their schizophrenic duality, I’m talking about what they really believe, what they believe when they get up in the morning and plan their daily strategy, what they believe when they get down to work, get down to the business of Survival. These people understand, as they always have, as Christ knew they did, understand how to grab the ovaries and balls and soul of every creature in the system. And within the system there is no defense against their cunning grab, because anybody who knows how to do anything: how to hunt, how to make pottery, tune an engine or play a violin, how to do anything Real, doesn’t have time for that kind of dry, fleshless sophistication. That kind of sophistication is a game playing. Their Life is game playing. They don’t have to do anything Real, don’t have to create anything Real, just have to know how to play the game; how to move the currency around, how to devaluate this, accelerate that, boost or knock the value of this or that, how to play the game. They don’t have to concern themselves, as creative people do, about making anything Real.

  190. 192 jyre August 10, 2008 at 10:38 am

    They own everything but they are not free—they are the ultimate conformists—for part of the ritualized power sorcery of financier, of banker, has to do with presenting the persona of ultra conservatism—the dreary culmination of conservatism. They are oblivious to what they have done to themselves and are doing to the world and they meet in buildings that make the Taj Mahal look like an outhouse—body guards everywhere, just like an army. These Money Monarchs are in there, the air conditioners are humming silently, total insulation, and they sit around talking about what to do with the planet. Compatriots in cosmic immorality, they don’t even have to say, “We’ll probably have to instigate a military confrontation to pull this situation out.” They know the signs, they know the signals, they know the tones. They know. It’s their religion. They share this religion with their predecessors and those to follow. They know it—they know precisely how to survive through exploitation in their corporate world of free enterprise. They are the Monarchs and they keep the books and your life is in a book—it’s numbers and graphs—you’re something known as demographics to them. Your life and my life and the life of the elements and the life of the children means nothing to them; the life of their own children means nothing to them in any sense that you and I can see. And if you meet one of these people, he seems a very refined gentleman with buffed fingernails and more than likely soft spoken and probably well read, expensively cultivated. But the potential for holistic heroic humanness is dead—there is no Anima Self, no Soul. Because his religion is not the religion of Truth and Responsibility to the Real world, but a game, an abstract game that most any success stimulated psychopath can learn to play. Yes, if you are capable of forgetting your gut feelings, forgetting about what impact your life has upon this planet and what our Creavolutionary exchange with the organic elements of the planet is, if you can arrange to forget all that and just become a game player, a money–game player, you can do it! But of course you have to be a maniac to do that.

    What do we do about these people? We work. We give everything we have to establishing an ecol–balance culture, an Ecolibrium Culture, and to establishing an elemental economics, as opposed to finance economics. Because if we stay plugged in, on whatever level—worker, professional, the arts—we’re working for those people. They are “The Man,” you see. The ones who know the money game—you work within the establishment, you’re working for them. They have the jobs, all of them. They aren’t going to save anything, they have no concern about anything except their religious passion for that game…

  191. 193 jyre August 10, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Lyndon, I like long posts too… lol… but ranting can be informative as well as entertaining…

    anyone think these words should be ignored? course ya do… until 3 am or catastrophe strikes you or right next to you…

  192. 194 Cleveland steamer August 10, 2008 at 10:45 am

    why couldn’t you just say no Cleveland I don’t want to answer your questions. Instead you just added five minutes of scroll time to get past that drivel. Thanks

    What is the Ecolobrium design? Where is this holy plan to salvation? Is it online somewhere to be analyzed. Why can you not see that Zendik is a truly horrible version of capitalism with a dash of what in my opinion amounts to slavery. Everything is in C/arol’s name. For cheaper insurance because she is older? It is the same greed that your quote ralies against my poor friend. Stop trying to like everyone and look at the facts and research what you think false.

  193. 195 jyre August 10, 2008 at 10:56 am

    I liked living there and having all organic meals provided, tools, computers, clothes, vehicles, books, music etc… I liked not paying rent, bills, etc… Out here is where I found out how hard it is to budget, pay bills, earn enough to do that, and while I liked selling for the talking to other humans, I always hated the need to ask for money to support myself and friends and mission… because the majority of people see things in ‘terms of economic worth’ including me and my mission, as most people are raised to – yet by reading writers who question this whole situation, and imagine inspired alternative organizational and cultural ways, i gained hope for myself and everyone…

    that’s the value I see here, bogus slinging included, though not appreciated…

    cleveland who? poker faced…

  194. 196 El Diablo August 10, 2008 at 11:05 am

    Lyndon, I like long posts too… lol… but ranting can be informative as well as entertaining…” -Jyre/Lisa Butler/Carol Von Wulfing III esquire

    Well if I am not “informing” you it may have something to do with your eyes/brain not my words. My posts are bursting at the seams with useful info Jyre.

    “anyone think these words should be ignored? course ya do… until 3 am or catastrophe strikes you or right next to you…” — Jyre/LB/CVWIIE

    Well, at 03:00 I was safely asleep in my bed (armed to the teeth, and with a full belly. ;) ).

    I’m a bit bored with you guys now. I think I’ll go to Wal-Mart…

    “Why can you not see that Zendik is a truly horrible version of capitalism with a dash of what in my opinion amounts to slavery. Everything is in C/arol’s name.” Mr. Steamy

    This is perfectly put. They are a corporate slave state. Period. C/arol is El Duce! And her monarchical position is NOT based upon merit, cuz she’s over-weight, irrational-illiterate, and tyrannical– hardly the qualities of an natural or organic Eco-Leader (although it fits the current dethkkkulture model really well, maybe she could run a small 3rd world country with her IRON FIST coupled with numinous rantings over a loud-speaker. lol)

  195. 197 jyre August 10, 2008 at 11:22 am

    Lyndon… a song for you…

    Take a look at whats inside your heart
    If it feels right go ahead
    You can be anybody that you want
    No matter whats been said

    You dont have to worry that you might hurt someone
    Nobody is going to look out after you but you
    Cause every man is for them self out there in this cruel world
    You’re all by yourself and its a cruel world

    Whats the point in letting things go by
    Saving someone’s elses tears
    You only live as long as it takes to die
    Its not as long as it appears

    You dont have to worry cause you didnt do enough
    The only few things here and now are here and now
    Time is winding up for you in this cruel world
    You’re all by yourself in this cruel world

    When you get to where you want to be
    And there is no place left to go
    Try to look at what you want to see
    See if there is room to grow

    You dont have to worry cause you got to start again
    There is so many life times waiting just for you to do
    Everybody needs to live in this cruel world
    You’re all by yourself and its a cruel world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  196. 198 Cleveland Steamer August 10, 2008 at 11:40 am

    News flash: At Zendik farm things were provided for me.

    Wow, I thought I earned those things by working seven days a week at least ten hours a day. Even at minimum wage I could afford to rent a room with seven other people and eat all organic food and pay my bills. I think you liked not having to think about those things Jyre.

    It’s a cruel world? No one denies that. It isn’t as if people here are saying we support Exxon and all they do. If we were to decry Bush or the countless other tragedies you would shout with us. Now, we have added a new member to those criminal ranks and suddenly we want to eat babies and fuck bunny rabbits.

    There are other alternatives my friend. And drop the fear mongoring as well. Wulf was no prophet. I am glad you find inspiration in his writing…wait do you? It seems you feel more lost and stressed than before as if you are struggling to make it through the day. Why not return to the haven of beauty that inspires you? That is what befuddles me. Alas I realize this will only be a rhetorical question with you.

  197. 199 jyre August 10, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    I earn way more than minimum wage and find it hard to pay for all organic food, bills, gas, rent, web access, etc… I’m lost and stressed out in some ways and others not so much, just like when I lived at Zendik. But I lost my sense of comitment there because I was in my fucking head all the time and wouldn’t deal with my feelings and doubts about my own comitment. I knew from years there where that was going and watched it happen, and the relief I felt on leaving was the sense that my responsibilities had just dropped to nothing but my own survival, which was more familiar to me than trying for living by the high ideals that attracted me to Zendik.

    I’ve been hit way harder than Chazz was and had teeth broken by someone i was honest with. I’ll take a slap from someone who wants to wake me up over someone who wants to break my jaw ‘cuz they think i don’t like them and look down on them…
    What you do with babies and bunny rabbits is a mystery to me and so is the inner world of most people to most other people.
    Any alternatives are welcome. Fear mongering? Fear of what, that the daily reality of life in the finance-oriented world will just continue monday thru friday til i’m dead? Yeah, that scares me too… TGIF doesn’t do it for me…

    wulf was a prophet, not superior to anyone else who has contributed to hope, but a bit more willing to include himself in the picture of responsibility than many… Oh, and the whole ecolibrium thing… more soon…

  198. 200 El Diablo August 10, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    Thanks for the song Jyre. I imagine that song was meant ironically in parts; I’m thinking of when the narrator suggests I “don’t have to worry that I might hurt someone”. At any rate, I feel like I must confess that I think the world is indeed cruel and I certainly have a cruel streak myself. I think it’s natural and frankly, I learned that from Zendik. Shit, that place was hard-core cruel at times (in fairness, it was really tender at times too).

    But really the biological world, not merely society, is dog eat dog, and any moments of tenderness, while welcome, are not expected.

    Tenderness, while nice and necessary at times, is not the sine qua non of human happiness I posit. IMHO the condition most necessary is liberty. This is the most important state of being.

    There are external threats to individual liberty (e.g., the state, parents, spouses, et.al.) and internal ones (e.g., religious/political creeds, morality, stupidity, et.al.) so one must attempt to overcome all these threats. This is no easy task in a repressive 21st century Panopticon (see: Bentham) police state coupled with social norms (e.g., pacifism, monogamy, community, et.al.) and religions (e.g., Christianity, Zendik, Liberalism, et.al.) designed to keep us dumb, and fettered internally.

    So it is seemingly true that when one abandons god, religion, country, society, morality, family and all systems (including the super-ego) then one is more internally free. But the reality of economic and political repression must be addressed in each person’s life too. This isn’t easy, but you can work towards it through all manner of practical application of wit and wisdom. Land base is key, and understanding the economic system is helpful as well. I don’t want to overburden this post with any more details than necessary, but suffice it to say, I started my own business, do creative work and make a tidy profit, all of which– when married to my abandonment of the aforementioned internal fetters– allows me to have a relatively free and fulfilling life. To be blunt, I’m happy because I am fairly free economically, socially, and internally; much, much freer than while I was at Zendik.

    People are different, I agree. Some people need to feel like they ‘belong’ to something. I don’t, but people do it seems. I think as with any system there are aberrations and I think in our species they are 1%ers who need a deeper, more radical, liberty above all other concerns (these are the vanguard of our race in my opinion, but whatever- all psychopaths think they are the ‘vanguard’ of our species. I suspect I am no different here).

    Radical freedom, a state of ever expanding liberty is the only thing I think that can provide us 1%ers with our essential needs; from that all else follows. Some people can live with less liberty and by dint of their slavish natures would much rather have security and a larger & communal ‘purpose’ than liberty. I still suspect that at the seat of human misery is the multifaceted slavery I mentioned above and not lack of cosmic purpose, or community, or the TruthWay Inc. ™. But I am willing to be wrong on that larger point.

    At any rate, some of us– regardless of what any of us suspect about our species writ large– some of us, for certain, don’t need ANY religion, or anyone else’s cosmic purpose, roommates stacked up like produce, or a Laotian to wake us up at 06:00, some of us need liberty–radical, individual liberty. I am trying to shake free from all fetters, external and internal and feel like I am getting closer everyday. It’s a process.

    Part of that process is realizing Zendik is a cult and a con-job on people; and that Arol & Wulf are another set of bullies using people. In spite of their PR they are just another group of cynical sociopaths attempting to control people for their own ends. This is why all that empirical data everyone keeps mentioning (e.g., the poison well water, the rape, the secret ‘family’ opinions of the group, the monolithic control of money/resources by Arol, et.al.) is so important. It is evidence of malicious intent and structural unaccountability.

    I came to Zendik an anarchist & atheist and am still one; more stridently so. I tried to ‘believe’ while I was there and give it an honest try; I gave it my all to which anyone who was there will attest. But I am just not a follower, a joiner, or a ‘believer’. I am constitutionally a skeptic and rationalist; and a misanthrope probably too. However, I am now realizing that many current and former Zendik’s are cut from the same cloth as most other ‘average’ people and are not the 1%ers I once thought them to be; they are merely credulous sycophants who want a mommy and daddy to tell them how to live just like every bourgeoisie fucker with white socks, beige pants, and that stupid look on their face (a face saying shit like, “god (the universe) has a plan for all of us”).

    So why even bother with Zendik or this site, you ask? Firstly, as a nihilist and an artist, my raison d’être is to critique and eviscerate that which offend and or tries to control me. Zendik, in its fascism and retrograde moral teachings offends me. Also, I think they are like most other systems of control and domination: illegitimate. So I make fun of them and freely tell the Emperor s/he wears no clothes as part of this campaign. It is fun for me to tear down that which is built to shackle any of us. Third, Zendik taught me to hate lies. Radical honesty is a concept they introduced to me, and I unlike Zendik leadership, I really try to apply that conceit to my life. I think most ex-zendiks are more honest than current ones for reasons of power (you tell the truth at Zendik vis-à-vis Arol/Fawn you better hit the bricks), but the exiled/escaped Zendiks are able to be so honest due to their time spent at Zendik I suspect (here credit due— thus credit given; the thing an honest man would do). So I am compelled to tell the truth, and my Anti-Zendik position is how I honestly feel.

    I am joking most of the time but this post was meant earnestly.

    Tabagen: I’m down with OPP (or was it USAF?) whatever it is– if it’s hostile and destructive count me in holmes…

    “Nobody with the slightest spark needs to suffer one moment of oppression in this world” — Ally Fox, The Mosquito Coast

    “Take what you can, give nothin’ back… argggggg” — Pirate’s code…

  199. 201 anonymous August 10, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    “Holy shit”

  200. 202 jyre August 10, 2008 at 7:41 pm

    I appreciate your spirit Lyndon, I wish more who post here had the courage to be themselves in this. there’s a lot of just wailing away with no real contribution to what WOULD work as far as the possibility of a communal cooperative culture here. Instead of attacking zendik, energy would be better spent developing a better version than the existing one, or dialoguing about how to create some sort of human reconciliation. I have fucked up so often and hurt other people in my insensitivity, my selfishness, my fear… I just hate to see the people here who are capable of something meaningful just throwing spitballs from the back of class. We humans need each other, even the fucked up among us, and especially the ones willing to take outrageous chances with themselves and their lives to move towards the liberty you speak of.

    I don’t think revenge is going to work out for anyone, neither will hating, or refusing to try to help. There’s a lot of potential here for constructive work. How many people in the world experienced confronting themselves in their pursuit of being honest at Zendik? A few hundred at most, much less spent many years at it. The opinions here are honest, the intent is possibly benevolent, but the techniques are pretty much like when I was in grade school and we kids and the adults didn’t have the tools or perspective to deal with the pain we caused each other. Well, we know something more now, but where we still look at other people as the enemy we’re still just being small and scaredangryconfusedyearning. Shit, five thousand years of humans writing produced at least a small bunch of books about people chasing their divinity and their human potential. Let’s remember and honor those folks’ attempt to teach others that we are all in this together and we all face a largely private battle with our less than ideal impulses and behavior.
    I may not be christian, but I think Christ had a lot of good things to say. we don’t have to live our daily lives in close quarters with each other, but we’re not tribes feuding over religious differences. we know we share the planet, and must find a way to make it work – except for the 1%, lol…
    We are one big group of learning earthlings, and we don’t have enough room, really, especially in cities where we concentrate our living together. What can you who post here teach to any open heart and mind reading here for help in this dog vs dog culture?

  201. 203 icanbeanybody August 10, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    news flash: it’s peiro not piero
    just to put this into perspective
    (see http://www.zendik.org/back-up/new1/people/peopleindex.html)

  202. 204 anonymous August 10, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    Jyre:

    Thanks for your calm tone. It has mellowed me out (for now). This needs repeating:

    Part of that process is realizing Zendik is a cult and a con-job on people; and that Arol & Wulf are another set of bullies using people. In spite of their PR they are just another group of cynical sociopaths attempting to control people for their own ends. This is why all that empirical data everyone keeps mentioning (e.g., the poison well water, the rape, the secret ‘family’ opinions of the group, the monolithic control of money/resources by Arol, et.al.) is so important. It is evidence of malicious intent and structural unaccountability.

    Can we make a better slave-state by any means other than total overhaul? Did the colonists make a better Britain, or a totally new republic? Zendik is fundamentally flawed in structure: autocratic and tyrannical. It is wrong in design. It could work with a computer for a leader, maybe– but no human. Arol is no worse than I would be, but that aint sayin’ much. Trust me, I am a fucking mad-man. ;) [Ed.note. no need to assure us, you are pushing at an open door with us on this one L-dawg]

    L

  203. 205 Cleveland Steamer August 10, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    Jyre,
    I guess it’s my ego that makes me think you refer to myself as one who is shooting spitballs from the back and not being themselves.

    First. I haven’t posted here because I am looking to hash out some new ideas for a cooperative culture. If that is what you want to discuss may I suggest you go start a separate blog on that subject.

    Second. I am glad to see you admit a new “version” of Zendik needs to exist. Personally, I would say no version would be best. From what I know and hear society would be better served with Zendik going the way of the Dodo.

    Who is out for revenge? Where do you get this stuff from? I can only speak for myself when I say that is not my motivation. So, I don’t like your old friends and say what I don’t like and what I think should be done about it and that is revenge? I thought you more articulate than that. If you wish to question my intentions please engage me as directly as this blog will allow. I would be happy to take you through the process of how my mind changed.

  204. 206 El Diablo August 11, 2008 at 2:01 am

    “I’ve been hit way harder than Chazz was and had teeth broken by someone i was honest with. I’ll take a slap from someone who wants to wake me up over someone who wants to break my jaw ‘cuz they think i don’t like them and look down on them…” – Jyre

    Dude, this is sad. Here’s a 3rd, more sane, option: nobody lays a fucking hand on me, period. I don’t care what their fucking motivations are. Jesus, Jyre have you gone mad? Each of us has a fundamental right to not be attacked physically. And if we are, we have a right to retaliate. Period.

    Notice that violence flowing ‘downhill’ is acceptable in our culture and Zendik culture too. In our culture, if the military or the cops wanna fuck someone up that is fine– shit, they got their ‘reasons’ right? If a civilian or a ‘terrorist’ wants to defend themselves or fuck someone up to effect some change they believe in, well that is unacceptable; that is ‘violence’ and horrible.

    At Zendik, if Arol wants to hit Chad that is cool– he deserved it; and Arol is in charge. What if Chad wanted to hit that bitch back? Oh, that would be unacceptable, horrible, senseless violence, huh? Does basic logic even matter any more? Well, if one is honest it does.

    Read Ward Churchill’s, Pacifism as Pathology for a deeper look at this phenomena. Derrick Jensen’s, Engame Vol I & II are useful too.

    What’s good for the goose is good for the gander…

  205. 207 anonymous August 11, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    “My answer is Zendik Communalism, a communal society in which we take care of each other. You have to build a familial support system for people. We’ve proven that here. I live here, I work here. It works for people to throw in together to survive. And that’s the only thing that’s going to work. I defy anyone to come here and not experience what I’m talking about.”
    - Arol Wulf-Zendik

  206. 208 ronaldomoon August 11, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Hey, guys and girls…

    You would all be doing me a HUGE favor by continuing your conversations on my new blog:

    operationawakening.info
    (this goes right to this post on the new page!)

    All of the current comments have been imported to the site, so the conversation can continue without missing a beat! :)

    I’m trying to make the transition to the new site as painless as possible at the expensive of my own free time, and I will still be leaving this here for those that don’t want to make the transition.

    Thanks!

    RonaldoMoon

  207. 209 ronaldomoon August 11, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    Also…if you guys want to find out if the people claiming to be from Zendik are really from Zendik…well then you’ll have to start using the new site! :D

    I have been asked to verify that these people are indeed posting from Zendik…as of now…I cannot. My log only keeps the last 500 hits so I’ll have to check it next time they drop by.

    I’m all for privacy, of course, but I hate the abuse of anonymity on the internet. Especially when it comes to things like this. I think that if you are going to claim to be someone then I have the right to verify that you are indeed that person.

    It’s also worth mentioning that most of the recent hits on this post come from IPs registered to the government.

    http://www.operationawakening.info/blog/zendik/

  208. 210 Helen Newman August 11, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    I’m heading over to the new URL–see you guys there!

  209. 212 anonymous August 11, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    Hi Ronald,
    Are those hits from the govt. posting?

  210. 213 Peiro Zendik August 12, 2008 at 11:56 am

    thanks for pointing out the spelling. My keyboard is wacky and I am not the best typer/ speller in a hurry.
    Arol entry is a fake by the way.
    In garden till 5 I will check back then.
    Helen I am drafting a response to your concerns after my PM meditrance.

  211. 215 Peiro August 26, 2008 at 8:25 am

    hello people,

    I am interested in making one post only. This will either be believed or not I don’t really care, but Zoe just told me about these posts I supposedly made on this forum. This is my first time on this forum. If you guys want to have your forum to say what you think, fine. But please have enough class to not make up posts in my name. It’s ridiculous. I’m calling Linden a Zoe wanna-be and I’ve never even met Linden in my life, and barely know who he is. I know the same is true of all of Chazz’s posts. We didn’t even know this forum existed till this morning. So please, spout whatever you’d like, but don’t use my name. I know this will probably invite whoever’s doing it to make up more posts in my name, and there’s not really anything I can do about it. So I guess i’m saying to whoever would believe this, all of the posts here written in my name are made up.

    Thanks,
    Peiro

  212. 216 Helen Newman August 27, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    I believe you, Peiro. I know now you didn’t make those posts, and I regret falling for the ruse myself.

  213. 217 ronaldomoon September 2, 2008 at 8:48 am

    Wow, so I feel like a total ass now. I got all of you to go to the new site and then it totally crashed. I cannot tell you how sorry I am for this. :(

  214. 218 jyre September 2, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    no worries. ronaldo…
    thanks for putting in the work to make it available thus far… not missing much based on what I’ve seen so far anyways…

  215. 219 anonymous September 8, 2008 at 8:31 pm

    sshhhhhhhhhh

  216. 220 Anonymoose September 12, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    So, lets revive this mother. Any of you die-hard Zendik lovers want to defend something? Arol.

    Why is somebody always in the dog house with Arol? Why does she think it is healthy to separate children from their parents? Why does she so often think the solution to relationship problems is to “cut off” the relationship.

    Please raise your hand if you’ve had a long-term romantic relationship at Zendik Farm which wasn’t “cut-off” at some point by Arol (and no fair raising your hand if your name is Fawn and Arol is your Mom, that’s nepotism).

    Also, Die-hard Zendik supporters… I didn’t live at Zendik so so so recently but I remember her voice and her tone. Why does she use that bed-time-story/creepy-preacher voice on her internet radio show? Why is the show called “Off the Cuff”? That show should be called “Faux Heavy New Age Mellow Puke”. But that’s just my opinion. Please offer yours. I want to hear what you get out of it.

    Arol’s Living Therapy… why is it so harsh? Do you think the people who live at Zendik Farm are truly made stronger by that harshness. Do they not become more entrenched by always living in fear that Arol is going to decide it is their turn? Why can’t anybody yell at Arol like she yells at them? Why?

    If Arol is so wise, why isn’t she building ANY following what-so-ever? I would put forward that Arol is so removed and irrelevant, much more-so than the Zendik movement I fell into. At least they used put forward some anger, some identifiable rebellion in their public face. Wulf never shied away from that response to the world. Arol seems to reserve her anger and outrage for her personal whipping boys and girls. Why is that?

    One more question for you Zendik defenders: Weren’t you afraid of Arol? Did you feel free to critique her?

    Please tell me why you feel loyal to her movement, how she’s improved your life.

    As for my opinion, Arol is off-her-rocker. She’s cruel. Living at Zendik Farm is a bizarre experience where you are forced to worship the biggest source of emotional pain in your life.

  217. 221 anonymous September 13, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    I don’t think anyone is going to defend Arol, but it would be interesting to me now to hear the logic of that defense.

    Just remember bystanders, Arol is going to be your living hell if you’re unfortunate enough to take the trip out to Zendik Farm.

    My sincere recommendation, save yourself the damage. Those of us who’ve left know the truth. You meet some cool folks, have some interesting camaraderie, kinda like going through war together. But you get unfairly picked apart, lose control of your personal choices, develop a weird ability to rationalize the actions of a twisted and mean old lady (if you stay long enough) and in the end you’ll have to orchestrate your departure with the least trauma possible, which seems to be getting harder and harder.

    DON’T GO!

  218. 222 reverynd E September 15, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    wow.really.wow. for the last couple of years i had been contemplating heading to zendik,to see if was the utopia i was looking for.between a couple of conversations i’ve had with active members and what i’ve researched on the web there is no way i’m going to ever go there.the information i received from zendik was misleading as to how the lifestyle really was,and i lived with enough lies.i’m gonna keep reading this stream because these do seem to be the most eloquent arguements i’ve witnessed in years,but a little spellcheck with some punctuation would make it easier to read..anyway peace to both sides of the issue..heading for the mountains..rEv E

  219. 223 My name is Jody September 16, 2008 at 5:44 pm

    I am so angry at these FALSE revolutionaries. They have said the worst, cruelest, ugliest LIES about my brother to keep him from seeing his daughter.

    Peiro, Talon, Chaz, Zara, Vi, Nika– if there is anything left of your concience please stop for a second and reflect on what you doing. Are you that lost?

    And if you are, all I can say is fortunately their is a legal system in this country to deal with those no longer checked by their own conscience.

    YOU WILL ALL BE SWALLOWED BY THE GOD YOU ONCE WORSHIPED. THE TRUTH WILL PREVAIL!

  220. 224 Zendik Farm September 19, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    You guys are all really streety.
    You all are sooo out there running your own shows it makes us sick.
    Total ego jacks ya now. Why don’t you all just get into the now of it ya know?
    The real now, the cozmic cum of now.
    Shhaaaaaaaaa! Feel it.
    Eat you pizza, and stop being the victims of your childhood captures.
    Freak into the now, cut loose of your conditioning! Pull the plug. Join the Revolution and Stop your Bicthin’ ™.
    Maybe you all should take a out, wait I mean in. Cause out won’t work now..
    Wulf was a profit!
    Heed the call to the best selling outlawband,thats out to save the homeland.!
    Yahh, afirmative kiddies.
    Don’t Go
    Ho Chang or Jeffery Gihad might get you. So it’s time to respect us and quit with the lame negativity guys.

  221. 225 Zendik Farm September 19, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    Donations please,,,???? In light of recent events we are gong to really need ‘em.
    Thanks.

  222. 226 Tabagen September 19, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    AFAP = Arol Fawn in Apartment or Prison
    Anyone else down?
    Fuck Mumia Free Colt!
    Operation AFAP in full effect starting at !@%%#@@#%% redacted.

  223. 227 Tabagen September 19, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    Oh and Johnjyre,
    I’ll lay this tea bag on your face.

  224. 228 jyre September 20, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Tabagen…

    Fuck you

  225. 229 DamienBlackhawk September 20, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Keep the faith Jyre. Even after ZF goes down, we will carry on Wulf’s work. A new day for Zendik is around the corner, but not for Arol and Fawn. They will lose their power, and all the abuse that has come with it will be put apon them.
    Viva la Revolucion!

  226. 230 jyre September 21, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    you’re funny

  227. 231 DamienBlackhawk September 22, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    I’m dead serious, actually.

  228. 232 seesha September 22, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    I stumbled across this discussion tonight, and am very glad I did.. I read A Quest Among the Bewildered by Wulf Zendik this summer, and was blown away, found it completely inspiring. I researched him on the internet and heard of this Zendik community, and it seems exactly the type of thing that I would love. Many of the comments I’m reading here by people with experience on the farm, however, are decidedly negative. I wonder what life is really like that, and for those who oppose the ‘Zendik Inc.’ of today, does that for you undermine Wulf’s own writing/philosophy that you might have previously appreciated?

  229. 233 Anonymoose September 22, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    Wulf Zendik’s writings don’t have to be undermined one bit to make Zendik Farm a shitty horrible place to live.

    Any person can preach a bunch of great stuff, doesn’t mean that when they get their own personal playground of power, they play nice.

    Honestly, Wulf wasn’t the worst abuser of the hierarchical leadership of Zendik. Arol was and is.

    I’m beginning to think that the popular phrase “power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely” is the best way to understand what is wrong with Zendik Farm. I’m beginning to think that anybody given unchecked power will eventually get spoiled and twisted from it. Totalitarianism sucks in all forms, whether the totalitarianism comes from White Supremacists, Communists, Vegetarians, or Porn Stars.

    Zendik Farm is a totalitarian state. Their current output is lamer than ever, but it’s the life that you live as a member that I mostly care to expose and protest. They say some nice stuff, but not much that you can’t find elsewhere.

    Might as well find your “cool” ideas from a source which isn’t so abusive, cruel and blatantly hypocritical. After my experience with the Zendiks, I’m pretty much shying away from all such groups who claim they have the only way, especially when they have so few original ideas.

  230. 234 jyre September 22, 2008 at 9:44 pm

    Seesha,

    I think the best thing to do for you to decide if you want to visit with an eye to live there is give the folks who live there a call. Many things have changed and evolved at Zendik farm since the folks who post here anonymously have lived there. Things there are not how they are portrayed on this blog.

    It’s worth a personal conversation with them, if wulf’s writing struck a cord. You should ask pointed questions, etc…

  231. 235 El Diablo September 22, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    “…struck a cord (sic)” — Seesha

    It should be “chord”. Thanks.

  232. 236 El Diablo September 22, 2008 at 10:59 pm

    I mean JYRE not Seesha. Whoops.

  233. 237 El Diablo September 22, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    I heard Zoe said something on here. Maybe he’ll re-post.

    In the interim, I’d like to re-state that many people who go and stay at Zendik are just like your average dross muthafucka in the DK. They are salves that desire, more than anything else, for someone to tell them what to do in the perceived sea of chaos that is LIFE.

    When I was there, I suffered from it too (more or less). I am saying this because it is the common denominator in my view. Most people are just slaves and have no desire, much less the balls, to be truly autonomous. This dove-tails nicely with the most mortal sin, the highest crime, the most scurrilous epithet and pejorative at Zendik Inc: “You’re running your own show” i.e., you’re attempting autonomy.

    Zendik knows you, the recruit, already hates freedom, are frightened of it, and they forbid you to even wink in its direction once you arrive. This is the sine qua non of any totalitarian regime; but, my friends, the blame rests squarely upon the shoulders of that recruit, upon the Traps and Delts of the people, the population writ large.

    Zendik Inc is a small (and largely irrelevant) microcosm of the larger existential phenomena of slavery. When the Czar was replaced by Communist autocrats the problem wasn’t merely the former god-head i.e., the Czar or the new supreme leaders i.e., Lenin/Stalin. It was the credulousness of the Russian people. As Christopher Hitchens’ points out (in God is Not Great), Stalin could only be such a successful (i.e., powerful) tyrannical god-head because the Russian people were prostrate enough in their thinking to supplant the Czar with the State and with the likes of Stalin. It was an easy transition. A credulous population is fecund soil for any tyrant e.g., Stalin, Bush, Arol et.al.

    Without credulous and slavish populations, autocrats, dictators, tyrants would have no substrate from which to grow. Look at our own political system. We DO have a choice for a decent leader (Ralph Nader for example; on the ballot in 45 states!) and yet around 95% the retarded US population still insist on either not voting at all, or voting for one of two criminal POS who will continue to, among other things, imprison the US population at levels (relative to the population) higher than Stalinist Russia or South African Apartheid. No shit. Look it up putas.

    I think history has shown us that Axxxx Ixxxxxxxxxx [redacted] is the only way for substantive historical change (see: 1776, 1959, et.al.), but we do have choices before it comes to that— and yet we DO NOT exercise these options. Why? Because we are slaves; and we like it that way.

    Don’t just blame Arol, she is merely doing what all tyrants do given the milieu. Blame the Nikas, Revs, Zoes, Talons, Vongs, Kailas of the world (and even us apostates, are also to blame, for how we helped this woman rise to power— we carry a special burden I think; and should work a bit harder to tear the veil away). It is their slavish, and spineless, allegiance which makes it all happen. Without them, Arol would just be a lunatic yelling at the stars, alone in her 1 bedroom apartment (AFAP, yo) harming nobody but herself.

    “The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves.”
    — Cassius (Julius Caesar)

    P.s. It all starts with god. Believing in god is the beginning of the wish to be a slave. As the arch-angel Lucifer said, (and as my homie Gabe reminds me) “Non Serviam”… lock & load.

    P.p.s. Nader ‘08

  234. 238 anonymous September 23, 2008 at 7:12 am

    Jyre,

    How do you know so much has changed? When was the last time you lived there?

    Why are you so determined to promote Zendik?

    I know that a LOT has stayed the same or gotten worse.

    This is a shady group of hypocrites and I wish you’d admit here that they do not treat their people as people should be treated. I wish you’d admit here that some animals are more equal than others over at the Zendik Farm.

    Senior Diablo makes great points about totalitarianism. And yup, there are lots of shady hypocrites in the world. I’m here to make sure this group of them doesn’t get to pretend they are a noble experiment with integrity. Nope, more of the same power-game BS.

    You can climb the hierarchy at Zendik Farm, but know what you’re getting into. You can’t reach the top unless you are Arol or Fawn’s boyfriend. And as much as you fall for the cooperate/be honest line that they throw out (increasingly unconvincingly) you will only be rewarded for butt kissing, ladder climbing skills, just like any lame power-trip institution.

    If you like all that cooperation/be honest/protect the environment/be an artist type stuff that the Zendiks talk about, look elsewhere.

    Zendik used to attract some cool people, and the property was populated with enough really cool people that I don’t regret my time there (though I’m a bit embarrassed I didn’t get it earlier). But, I wasn’t saving the world. I wasn’t involved with a group so elite that only the hardest of the hardcore and the smartest of the smarties could get down with it, as I was told (to the delight of my juvenile superiority complex). We weren’t conducting an important experiment of human cooperation. Nope.

    Sorry Jyre.

  235. 239 anonymous September 23, 2008 at 7:23 am

    Also Jyre,

    I’m surprised with the current situation (which none of us like to talk about here, you know the one) that you still feel how you do.

    No Cozmic Custody 2008!

  236. 240 El Diablo September 23, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    “And yup, there are lots of shady hypocrites in the world. I’m here to make sure this group of them doesn’t get to pretend they are a noble experiment with integrity.” — A

    This is right on. Tear the veil away. Zendik no longer gets to pretend they are anything but another cynical link in the long chain of slavery.

    Paid for by the Committee to Re-elect Diablo for Governor 2012 ™

    “(Jyre) welcome to ‘you’re wrong night’; welcome to ‘no sympathy night’”. — Bill Hicks

  237. 241 Gentle Reader September 23, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    WOW!

    I have been fascinated with the Zendik community since my first interaction with the “sellers” at a Motorhead show in 1987. I am going to look for my zine I purchased for $2.00 and take another trip down memory lane.

    This blog was certainly the best reading I have encountered with regard to the Zendik Tribe. I especially enjoy the statements of El Diablo. Dude, you should write a stand up routine and take it on the road.

    This particular excerpt had me in tears I was laughing so hard.

    “Jyre, do us all a favor and fuck off. I am not a victim and neither are the independent and intellectually honest people who have posted here along side me. Your fucking pants are down on this point. For you to even suggest that by asserting ones independence of thought and action one a priori becomes a victim is not only asinine but fucking insulting; AKA fightin’ words. Maybe when me and your tubby ass meet one day, I’ll give you a lesson on the perpetrator/victim relationship Chinese Kun Tao style. Maybe then you’ll have an epiphany vis-a-vis –who is and is not– a victim. Lol. Asshole.”

    I am considering sending my teenager to Virginia for an attitude adjustment. Do you think this is wise?

  238. 242 anonymous September 23, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    Gentle Reader
    “I am considering sending my teenager to Virginia for an attitude adjustment. Do you think this is wise?”

    Not a bit

  239. 243 Helen Newman September 23, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    Seesha and Gentle Reader: If you want a precise and comprehensive description of what you/your offspring will experience at Zendik, please read the Zendik FAQ, at http://emeraldimajia.livejournal.com.

    Don’t go. Or if you do, don’t say we didn’t warn you.

  240. 244 El Diablo September 23, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    “This blog was certainly the best reading I have encountered with regard to the Zendik Tribe. I especially enjoy the statements of El Diablo. Dude, you should write a stand up routine and take it on the road.” — GR

    Well, my innate (and well cared for) hubris will not allow me to let this bit of beau geste to go by me without comment. I appreciate that you actually laughed at my little aggro-comedy-of-doom act. I wonder sometimes if I am the only one laughing when I say/write these insane posts. I wonder no more.

    It is heartening and for that I am grateful. A man of my sullen disposition needs all the encouragement I can get.

    In all seriousness, I am ambivalent about the affects Zendik Inc has on people. For me, it truly changed my life for the better. Now, it bears repeating that some of this was in spite of Arol and Zendik writ large, not due to it. But, in all fairness, they taught me how to get honest; and that it exactly what I was missing (and now all I’m missing is the humility which that honesty supplanted. lol).

    Keep in mind this was 10 years ago. So I cannot give you any real advice on current Zendik conditions. I can only impart my experience– and now a warning: Arol is a fascist and tyrant with a kind of comical/inept patina (the Zendik trains DO NOT run on time; lol). Additionally, that place is so retrograde as to be tantamount to some kind of time-warp in many ways (oh, a time warp BACKWARDS).

    It lacks the esthetics of true artists, the ethics of genuine revolutionaries, and additionally it lacks both the anarcho-democracy (“everybody is the genius of something”) and meritocracy (each person is a leader in their areas of genius) that it vacillates between in its banal (and derivative) rhetoric. Most people at Zendik Inc. are proletarian salves who are rarely, if ever, afforded time or space to express their “genius”, and Arol and her coterie of apparatchiks garner most of the leadership roles and the concomitant spoils despite their ineptness in those very roles. Think: a society where John Lennon gets deported/killed and George W. Bush gets to be President. Kinda like that only with goat’s milk and oddly, Arol’s ’singing’ sounds like Yoko Ono… savvy?

    Anyway, like all totalitarian cultures the flow of punitive and positive feedback is calibrated on the irrational whims of the Dear Leader (see: North Korea). I do suggest a thorough reading of Helen’s FAQ (the link is above this text). At any rate, I think that as long as one knows what one is getting into, then maybe the Zendik experience can be illuminating. I would not send a minor child though for obvious reasons. The risk of child abuse is moderate to high (exposure to STD’s is high as well– augmented by Zendik Inc’s refusal to apply even basic CDC guidelines to known STD’s).

    Having said all that I wouldn’t recommend 21st century America to anyone either without a healthy dose of intellectual self-defense (read: Noam Chomsky, Stan Goff, Derrick Jensen, Ward Churchill, Hunter S. Thomspon, et.al.) and a cache of sophisticated small-arms and class IIIA body armor. But, shit, that’s just me…

    Lastly, no place is perfect, but the ubiquitous invigilation at Zendik makes it less likely one can exert any autonomy in their daily lives. Whereas, even though the US is a proto-police-state in my opinion, many of us can still act and think freely due to the lack of policing infrastructure (they cannot police us all, despite Bentham’s Panopticon– and thus many of us outlaws get away with quite a bit indeed. heh heh.)

    “Take what ye can, give nothin’ back”– Pirate’s Code

    Diablo (argggggg)

  241. 245 Another Ex Zendik September 23, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    Anyone that has lived at ZF and knows what a 501(c)3 is know that ZF is committing fraud.

    What Arol is and has been doing is Criminal to say the least. I don’t have to list them as we all know.

    I was lured into a LIE by Lies and wasted time of my life. This cannot continue.

    I have reported ZF to the IRS about their 501(c)3 status and directed Law Enforcement to all ZF threads, blogs and sites. It is time for this cruel cult to end before someone gets hurt. A lie cannot be sustained.

  242. 246 The Government September 24, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Oh, great, here we go again….. but atleast I have something to do at the end of my work day.

    Thanks1!!!!

  243. 247 Talon September 25, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    If find the lack of faith in the truthway here disturbing to say the least. I could wipe my ass with most of these arguments here. We all know that to become a strator at Zendik you have to pays dues and know how to do the job right. Everybody jams here and I really don’t understand why you all are so focused on us when the WORLD IS LITERALLY BURNING DOWN AROUND US. I’m gonna put a Gehngis Kahn from the north night on all of you.
    Everyone here at the farm would be hurt to see so many old comrads turned to the dark side as they have here, but we are to busy doing the real work of revolution here. We run our vehicles on veggie fuel. What are you squares doing?
    We put out some of the most cutting edge music and t-shirts around.You all are just bitchin’.Congressmen and senators secretly admit to saying we have good ideas to run the world. When the time psychically presents itself, we will be able to organize all the scattered people into a cohesive revolutionary force to create a eden on earth.
    Creavolution!
    Seesha don’t give up your wildness to these negative clones of nerdery! Call the farm and ask for Talon and I will take care of you really sweet like.

    Peace.

  244. 248 El Diablo September 26, 2008 at 1:23 am

    lol. “really sweet like”. sweet. ;)

  245. 249 Julio September 26, 2008 at 6:47 am

    I’m probably a nerd, but I feel like this little discussion actually helps uninformed people know about Zendik Farm. Every time somebody falsely posts as a Zendik, it kinda kills the validity of the whole thing, at least to me.

    Those few posts make this whole forum very easy to just blow off, in the eyes of the Zendiks… “you know that stupid forum where people pose as Zendiks just to tell lies about us.”

    Believe it or not, a few of the Zendiks will be reading this. I’d like to think it could infiltrate their little house of rationalizations, just a wee bit.

    Like I say, I’m probably goofy to expect that. But it might.

  246. 250 FlatMan September 26, 2008 at 10:11 am

    I’d like to think there was a pill that would increase my endurance and stamina for flattering myself a zillionfold! Psyche. Fuck ALL you retards including myself and everyone’s name who was called here.

    ..with the exception of Tabagen, who gets credit for being the only person expressing a remote trace of imagination. When I was somewhere around 13, I used to toboggen down a flight of stairs with my youngest half sister. Sometimes we used a blanket. The stairs were thickly carpeted. Wasn’t fucking her, but it was still fun in a time when we were apparently ridiculously hard up for a means by which to productively apply ourselves.

    ..oh, and the anonymous poster who appears merely to say holy shit earns certification too. becuz.. shit is holy, and it takes true guts to just come right out and state it as purely and simply as that.

  247. 251 Holy Roller September 26, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    I’d like to think that all holy rollers deserve to have their faces torn off and fed back to them in dogbowls, but I’m too busy having my face torn off and fed back to me in a dogbowl, so I realize I deserves it, and it’s none of your business or something.

    Okay, I have a music video idea for the theme song to full house. There’s a guy in a war, and there’s dead bodies everywhere, with their internal organs spilled on the ground and whatever, and the guy is singing “There’s a heart, there’s a heart, of somebody. WHO NEEDS YOU?” It should be worked into the show itself as a spoof where a lookalike of one of the dads is the soldier, and it should end with the dude stepping on a landmine, that he himself set, accidentally. I don’t know how the viewer would be made to know that but I’m sure there’s a way. Maybe he killed all the people by setting up a minefield, and they show him doing that at the beginning, and then at the end he just sits down to rest and sits on one. It should be a political statement, and maybe snuck into something like a movie theater film reel, guerilla-style. Heck, it would be even more interesting if the script and the motive were presented to one of the original actors for that show playing a dad like sagat or stamos or whatever that blond guys name is or was if he or the others still exist, and he agreed to do it himself. Children wouldn’t see the world the same anymore. Does that Sagat still do that Americas home videos are supposed to be funny or something show? Have an actual soldier send him a video from his “home” where something like this actually occurs so he can look right at it, how about that? I mean not making it happen but digging something up, I’m sure there’s something out there that guy would really appreciate.. waking up to, along with an opportunity to respond with imagination.

  248. 252 An outsider September 26, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    The most disturbing thing is how such otherwise intelligent folks (at least in some cases) got conned into going there, living there and becoming so slavishly devoted to the…um cause.
    I actually thought about going for a visit when the farm was in NC, mainly out of curiousity. I lived in a nearby city in those days and even sent an email or two to the zendiks offering up my house if they ever needed a place to stay in the big city when they would come to sell their wares. My correspondance was wth Kaila and it was somewhat limited as they never took me up on my offer. I also bought one of their t-shirts (from Kare) at a festival a couple of years ago and have kept up with the zendik website over the years. I felt some admiration for their struggles against all that is wrong with the world and their desire to do something positive to fix it. I didn’t see great changes happening as a result of their efforts but thought they were harmless optimists.
    I’m an outsider, a square to be sure but the idea of living in a communal situation with other “artists” working toward a common goal of making the world a better place and eating good homegrown organic food was appealing to me. But when I looked closely, I noticed that all of the artwork featured on the website looked the same. Does everyone try to imitate Rev’s stuff? It all looks like album covers from the 70’s. Is anything else acceptable? Also, the music…yeah, Arol sounds like Yoko alright, jeez, it’s awful to listen to. And the dancing – Vong’s dance style is so similar to Fawn’s. The whole esthetic quality of the art produced there has this creepy, dark feel. What if someone showed up who wanted to paint bright yellow daisies all over the place? Or what if someone wanted to play music that didn’t sound like gawd awful yowling?
    Then there were the leaders: Arol – I listened to a couple of her “off the cuff” presentations and found her ideas to be not so original or revolutionary. She must have some redeeming qualities though – something other than fear that makes people want to give her their money..their lives even. Is she that skilled at her job as a cult leader? How does she manage this? Is Rev really her boyfriend (I assume this is since Wulf passed away)? She may have been a looker back in the day but she’s old enough to be his grandma and she looks like she has put on a few pound too which she feels she can hide by wearing mu mus. The thought makes me feel a bit queasy. No wonder he feels he must drink!
    Fawn – Now she gets points for being sincere and earnest and cute but she comes off as not so bright. Then again, she was raised in this zendik world with no outside schooling, correct? I’d love to see Fawn go out and have to find a real job. Is it true she is preggers again? If I were a truly committed zendik fellow, I’d have to make it a priority to impregnate that girl as quickly as possible so that my status within Zendik, Inc would be secure, lol. If you are a female, I guess there is no way to ascend to the top. They don’t believe in homosexuality right? So you couldn’t sex your way up the ladder.
    Speaking of sex, the whole dating ritual sounds really un-sexy. Do you actually make a date with someone (with Arol’s ok), get your vagina probed beforehand to make sure you aren’t fertile and then go off to a hut somewhere to do the deed? Wouldn’t be easier just to masturbate? Or is that banned? How sad too that nobody was allowed to have a relationship, excpet for Arol and Fawn of course.

    Back when the website featured the people with little blurbs about them, I always wondered about the comments like “he came to us a deadhead but we are working on changing that” or “she is a little boy crazy but she is learning to curb that” or other strange things along those lines. It made me wary but again, I thought they were probably harmless and ok, so we all have things we can improve upon.

    OK, now the gossipy side of me wants to know who the heck is left there these days? Nobody seems to be tending the website at all so we don’t get any pictures of the “people who make the zendik life possible”. Another curiousity – What becomes of the older zendiks who have lived there many years such as Lore? I’m sure there is no retirement plan for folks like her and it sounds like anyone could be booted out into the deathculture at any time with nothing but the clothing on their back. Poor Lore, she must be what, 60ish? Her usefulness to them might be at it’s end and I doubt anyone in the deathculture would pay her to make art. Sad, truly sad. What about Kare? I only had a brief encounter with her (when I bought the t-shirt) but she seemed so nice, so friendly and sweet. I bought the shirt more because I felt sorry for her standing out in the hot sun than from any real desire to own a zendik shirt.
    What has become of folks like Chen and Shey who seemed for many years to be at the top of the zendik hierarchy? Their pictures disappeared from the lineup soon after they had a child. I always wondered about the people on the website and what was beind those shiny happy looking faces. I always wonder about these folks after they leave too, those whose pictures just disappear and how they end up making their way in the world. I hope they are all ok and not too damaged from their experiences.

    BTW – Helen, I’m genuinely impressed with your writing and can’t wait to read your book. I think folks like you were the biggest asset the zendiks ever had. I would really want to join a group that included you. I would most assuredly NOT want to join a group where I’d have to sit around listening to Arol or one of her appointees tell me whats wrong with me and what I need to do to be a better zendik. How wonderful for you that you made it out and came to see the truth. Good for us here in the deathculture to have you among us & truly Arol’s loss. If you ever get a hankerin’ to visit the NC mountains again and do a little weed pulling, you are welcome to visit me and my family on our 30 organic and wild acres in the middle of nowhere (and way north of the old zendik farm).

    I’ll sit back and read now. This thread has been far more entertaining than anything I’ve seen on the www in awhile, especially those el diablo posts. Keep ‘em coming!

    Outsider

  249. 254 Tabagen September 27, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    thanks to flat man! We would like to hear more from you.

  250. 255 El Diablo September 28, 2008 at 12:45 am

    I think ’someone’ has eaten something that sat out a little too long at room temp. At any rate, the award for strangest non sequitur in a non professional capacity (in the last 72 hours) goes to…

    Holy Roller!

    Nice work XXXX. lol.

    Runner up….

    Flatman

    Nice work XXXX. ;)

    VIVA AFAP!

  251. 256 EL Anonymouso September 28, 2008 at 12:46 am

    Holy Shit…

  252. 257 Helen Newman September 28, 2008 at 9:02 am

    Outsider: Here’s my best shot at answering your questions.

    “Does everyone try to imitate Rev’s stuff?…Is anything else acceptable?”

    One visual artist who has left Zendik does seem to be imitating Rev’s style, but, since he is an extraordinarily prolific and passionate creator, and is now removed from the crush of that influence, I expect that he will come into his own before long. I would not say that the other visual artists imitate Revel, especially since those I can think of arrived at Zendik before he did. However, their output is not promoted because it is not sufficiently didactic and Wulf-centric to function as propaganda. Also, these other artists are not Arol’s boyfriend.

    “What if someone showed up who wanted to paint bright yellow daisies all over the place? Or what if someone wanted to play music that didn’t sound like gawd awful yowling?”

    The bright yellow daisy painter would be broken of her or his desire, or kicked back out into the DeathKultur. There have been musicians at Zendik who were and are extraordinarily talented, but, for the most part, they have been impressed into service as support staff for Wulf and Arol. Jyre used to compose and sing twangy, funny (non-yowly) birthday songs, but they never made it onto any album.

    “[Arol] must have some redeeming qualities though – something other than fear that makes people want to give her their money..their lives even. Is she that skilled at her job as a cult leader? How does she manage this? Is Rev really her boyfriend (I assume this is since Wulf passed away)?”

    Arol does have some redeeming qualities. She can be very kind, and attentive, to those who are in favor at the moment. She will make you feel like you are bursting with potential, and consummately precious –until she turns on you, and drops you. Also, her propensity to say whatever she’s thinking, whether it’s true or delusional, generous or nasty, makes it both exciting and terrifying to be “in close” to her. She’s good at getting people’s adrenaline going. Finally, she’s a gray-haired mother figure who openly acknowledges her sexuality and talks “straight” about sex–perhaps this quality is more common than I know, but I found it novel, ergo impressive, when I showed up, fresh from my WASP/Catholic background.

    Arol is quite skilled at her job as a cult leader, in the sense that she’s learned/intuited many of the strategies common to those who succeed in this line of work: raising and dropping people (to keep them off balance), using attribution and criticism to re-form each follower’s understanding of who he or she is, perpetuating an eternal and all-pervasive enemy (the DeathKultur) in order to consolidate internal cohesion, setting up an income-producing arrangement (selling) that doubles as propaganda machine and crucible for solidifying commitment, breaking and/or controlling pair bonds that threaten the primacy of those tying individual Zendiks to her. And so on. She’s brazen enough to excel as a bully, and self-revealing enough to convince those around her that she shares in their struggles.

    Yes, Revel is really her boyfriend and, so far as I know, has been for the past nine years.

    “Then again, [Fawn] was raised in this zendik world with no outside schooling, correct?”

    Correct.

    “Is it true she is preggers again?”

    Yes, she is.

    “[Zendiks] don’t believe in homosexuality right?”

    Right.

    “OK, now the gossipy side of me wants to know who the heck is left there these days?”

    As far as I know, these are the people who are left there: Arol, Fawn, Revel, Zoe, Colt, Erim, Chazz, Vong, Lore, Kare, Zara, Vie, Kaila, Nika, Shio/Caroline, Talon, Peiro, Chi, Urs, Sev, De’or, one old-time Zendik who’s returned for another try, and one more small child. I don’t think Fawn’s third baby has been born yet.

    “What becomes of the older zendiks who have lived there many years such as Lore?”

    Lore is in her early fifties, I think. I don’t expect she (or Kare) will be treated well as she ages, but it’s hard to predict precisely what will happen, since there’s no precedent. Wulf and Arol are the only two members who have experienced catastrophic, old-age-associated illness, at Zendik.

    “What has become of folks like Chen and Shey who seemed for many years to be at the top of the zendik hierarchy? I always wonder about these folks after they leave too, those whose pictures just disappear and how they end up making their way in the world. I hope they are all ok and not too damaged from their experiences.”

    For the most part–to the best of my knowledge–these folks are okay. All of us who’ve left have struggle through the process of coming to terms with what happened to us, and what we did, at Zendik–some of those struggles last longer, and let more blood, than others. However: Damage–and struggle–are not the only fruits of having lived at Zendik. The Zendik experience, once distilled and understood, can be a source of strength, sobriety, compassion, self-knowledge…and whatever other sterling quality the individual is willing to conjure from the flames/from the ashes.

    Thanks for your comments on my writing. If you’d like you can send your contact information to madgelma@hotmail.com and I will perhaps look you up when and if I make it back down to North Carolina.

  253. 258 Howley Rowler (crownne yew growleyer) September 30, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    Hey there Diadribbleo, who are YOU to insinuate that my dogbowl is full of stagnant water? Do you remember that commercial we had on our site with the children being blown up by landmines on their soccer field? All that did for me was tickle my nuts in way that made me want to kill stupid people’s stupid children in whatever way I could get away with and I assume that’s all it did for anyone else including you so this idea to symbolically blow up Sagat was my means of imaginative management so tell me one more time I do nothing for the world, I think that was beneficial in every certainty, I could have just sat here and pushed the button like any other dumb cocksucker I could mention if I was so inclined but aren’t. The smear campaign routine might have made some remote sense to me when I was seventeen and had a hint of energy for that kind of exercise, but fifteen years of my life has transpired since then and the progress I’ve made over that time as a result of sacrificing that fagflex reflex is dear to me, K? If we’re being called here to wake up let’s wake up, shall we? I could sit here and call out a moron as if we’re both not already aware of it or tell this mentally projected moron to do something with my self righteous faggotass tshirt or something, sure I could sell that line, but instead I did something real so get your gun and lick and love it or whatever. Lindon Brodge is falling down. Clown. At least when I pass the flattergas I leave some FUNCTIONAL shit behind. *blows a single kiss that blows into the air* Yeah, I’m capable of being a cocky self-promoting professional at convincing myself that I’m professional too, see? *twirls noisemaker* woooo! *kicks voodoo attention whore mannequin in the crotch nine times* GO ASSFUCK YOUR MOTHER ALONG WITH YOUR OSCARS AND TONYS. You see I said that in one sentence. Didn’t need a whole column. Proffessional capacity, BITCH. That’s right, I said that to your face, now bench press me through your little cieling there, bust your jeet-koo thingy. Faggot. You WISH you were the devil. *spits in your face* Now go talk some more Chinese you little CHINK NIGGER FAGGOT BITCH. Yeah. I AM a strange non sequiter, that is an absolute affirmative I AM aware of. Do NOT follow me. Punk. Coward. Apologist. Scum. How many innocent people did we just shoot in the face? Think about it, pinwheels. Think long and hard. YOU could be another Lincoln, you pink easter basket full of AIDS. HEH HEH. TWIDDLE TWIDDLE. RRRRRIBIT. You think I don’t know who YOU are? I’ll blow your cover right here, BOB SAGAT. Child Predator. Warmonger. Maggot. LIAR. Yeah, so you know, when you start to get tired of all that lying, when it finally starts crashing down on you, just relax, let it go, sit down, think about what could have happened to you, right, exactly.

    L (for Ladi-frickin-Da, LOSER)

  254. 259 FatFlan September 30, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Thankyou for the friendly welcome Tabatha, but before you start afapping on my behalf, 1. I am an open minded but straight male. 2. I don’t know who you are. You can email me here: flapmad@hushmail.com

  255. 260 El Diablo September 30, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    “I could sit here and call out a moron as if we’re both not already aware of it or tell this mentally projected moron to do something with my self righteous faggotass tshirt or something, sure I could sell that line, but instead I did something real so get your gun and lick and love it or whatever. Lindon Brodge is falling down. Clown. At least when I pass the flattergas I leave some FUNCTIONAL shit behind. *blows a single kiss that blows into the air* Yeah, I’m capable of being a cocky self-promoting professional at convincing myself that I’m professional too, see? *twirls noisemaker* woooo! *kicks voodoo attention whore mannequin in the crotch nine times* GO ASSFUCK YOUR MOTHER ALONG WITH YOUR OSCARS AND TONYS. You see I said that in one sentence. Didn’t need a whole column. Proffessional capacity, BITCH. That’s right, I said that to your face, now bench press me through your little cieling there, bust your jeet-koo thingy. Faggot. You WISH you were the devil. *spits in your face* Now go talk some more Chinese you little CHINK NIGGER FAGGOT BITCH. (sic)” — H/R

    Well, what does one say to all that? Lol. I suspect there are some real nuggets of truth in there; some genuine/valid critiques of my arrogance or my Quixotic delusions. The main problem is that I’ve already admitted to all these faults (and many more)– many times over. That kind of takes the wind out of your sails a bit kiddo; whoops.

    So even if through all the manic, low-brow, childish nonsense this retard has just spewed out one was able to glean any truth it would still just be heavily trodden and boring ground we’re left standing upon i.e., it really lacks the gravity (or import of any kind due to its lack of originality or timeliness) to justify all that emetic and ethereal horse-shit its wrapped up inside. Day late, dollar short, as they say.

    In other words, try to be concise (yeah, I’m saying be concise, heh heh) if you’re not going to be able to reveal ‘truths’ not yet announced by your intended victim. Ok? Otherwise it’s just long boring shit bro.

    And for the record I do not “wish I [was] the devil”. That would be dumb. There is no devil or god, or any of that nonsense. I sometimes do wish I were Batman. Gay enough for ya? Good…

    Lick & love (or whatever)…

  256. 261 This Retard September 30, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    Boring trodden ground. Lack of originality. The exact point that person made that you missed and always will. Kid. Now you’re going to put this text in quotes and talk some more retarded faggot shit and think you’re hip for it. No, you’ll never be gay or anything whatsoever enough for me, Blandman. You’re nobody. Too bad for you. Life goes on.

  257. 262 El Diablo September 30, 2008 at 9:51 pm

    I didn’t miss the point, I disagreed with it. Now, THAT distinction, I suspect, will be lost on you. Nuance doesn’t seem like your strong suit (nor honesty either– since you won’t just admit who you are like the rest of the serious people on this thread). Oh, well, maybe a 3rd party to our dialectic will get it.

    Life, as you say, does indeed “goes on”. I wonder if you have any more banalities and illiterate shibboleths for us, or are you done acting like you have a clue what either of us are actually saying?

    Do you know how painful it is to even have to have a discussion with a person with a <100 IQ? It be like you arguing with your pet; your retarded pet. Your stupidity is painful for us all… but it ought to hurt you most of all.

    LJM

    P.s., Seriously, why not just say who you are, tough guy? It’s too easy and too chicken-shit to talk that kind of ad hominem shit hiding behind your nom de guerre. You know who I am, as I have said it out-loud (again) for all to see. I bet you won’t though cuz you’re the faggy, unoriginal blandman it seems; too scared to reveal yourself and your retarded little life for invigilation and analysis. Good luck kitty-kat, you’re gonna need it.

  258. 263 El Diablo October 1, 2008 at 7:28 am

    I’m so retarded I’m going to sit here and talk to myself now after being rejected by an intelligent person. Watch me insult myself with lots of big words and think I’m hip for it. Watch me tell my own story, knock the wind out of my own sails, and wish myself good luck. Watch me spit shit piss and vomit all over myself, chase my tail, and argue with my own shadow in a desperate cry to keep my competitive edge.

    I’m YOU.

    Tough guy.

    NOW what?

  259. 264 El Denial October 1, 2008 at 7:36 am

    YYYYYYABADABADOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

  260. 265 El REAL El Diablo (heh heh) October 1, 2008 at 11:56 am

    “Watch me insult myself with lots of big words…” – Flatman/HollyRoller/ERiM (could it be XXXX)? et.al. ineptly posing as El Diablo

    I love how this one comes out as the weapon of last resort (every-time! by every person with a double digit IQ). Lol. To a 5 year old kid, YOU use “big” words ya know? But, you know what, you use ‘em anyway cuz, “it just seems like that 5 year old should learn a thing or two and grow the fuck up,” you think to yourself.

    So, in that vein, maybe you should maybe learn a few new words and increase not just your vocabulary but the capacity for abstract thought along side it (hint: these two phenomena are connected). See, words are to the writer what colors are to the painter: the more you have the more complete the picture. The more complete the picture the more profound the message to the artist’s own soul and that of his audience (one hopes).

    If you wanna paint in monochromatic tones feel free, but do not pretend that I merely attempting to be “hip” with my word choice– I’m attempting to impart something that requires the nuance of specific language (and to have fun too, language is fun for me– oh and to be hip too).

    Savvy? I doubt it. Enjoy your IQ.

    P.s. Why still no real name amidst all this bravura on your part? You are the kind of cocky with ZERO credibility cuz you won’t stand behind it; you always run away. That is the central difference between our two brands of arrogance.

    P.p.s You’re right to point out I am competitive, and against you holmes, I am winning. You think we are PEERS lol (like Melville and Hawthorne corresponding about Moby Dick for example)– but this is just not the case heh heh. You’re several paces back of me and I’m afraid the more you speak the clearer this becomes… NOW WHAT?

  261. 266 Helen Newman October 1, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    How about let’s leave Holy Roller to his glossolalia, and return to the subject at hand, i.e., the Zendik “revolution.” Yesterday, while reading Full Spectrum Disorder (thanks, El Diablo, for the recommendation), I came across a snippet that beautifully encapsulates the trouble with Zendik’s claim to a pre-eminent position in the fight for social change:

    “I believe in revolutionary vanguards. But they have been given a bad name by all these pretenders. A revolutionary vanguard is an organization that can mobilize mass movements, using a mass line (from the people, to the people), and win victories. The proof is in the pudding. Fidel Castro’s 1950s guerrilla army was a real vanguard. A sect that indoctrinate its new members on a college campus and obliges them to hawk newspapers no one wants is not.” (Stan Goff)

    Change “college campus” to “compound in West Virginia” and there you have Zendik.

    Challenge to Zendik defenders:

    What victories has Zendik won? What mass movements has it mobilized? What broad shifts has it created?

  262. 267 Excrement (Aint nothin' like the real thing, baby.) October 1, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    Hell yeah, asshole. In your face. Eat it. Whoo!

    Yeah, you’re entitled to win your little game with yourself there, faggot. Anyone wih any IQ at all can figure that out. Now you die slowly in your little self-devised gas chamber there, that’s what. Stooge.

    P.S. You stink.

  263. 268 Answer October 1, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    Helen a zendik defender is someone who defends an imaginary collective entity which makes you one if that’s what you’re doing. What victories have YOU won?

  264. 269 My Dick Is Bigger Than Yours October 1, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Do I still have your attention? Good. That’s all the credibility I need, Zero.

  265. 270 Destroying The Competition System October 1, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    Erim? Interesting call. I’ve not seen that person’s writing, I’m curious about what brings up that comparsion. I was under the suspicion that I was bantering with Revel, I don’t know that person’s real name either.

    Anonymity is a right and responsibility we as humans are entitled to without being accused of being flakes. Thanks for assisting and supporting my process. Really gotta go now. Take care.

  266. 271 Helen Newman October 1, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    What imaginary collective entity am I defending?

  267. 272 El Diablo October 1, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Stan Goff is the shit, huh? I recommend that book (Full Spectrum Disorder) to everyone.

    DISCALIMER– The troll that’s been copiously posting non-sense that makes Fawn’s rants look cogent, has a name and we think it’s DUKE.

    Duke is a burn-out racist shit-head (with no talent and no balls), and that’s the last of my wrangling with his inept ass. I do love a good fight, but that crazy-ass fucker is just cutting and pasting from stock non-sense at this point and is boring as fuck…

    Back to the dismantling of Zendik propganda…

    P.s., Reading Castro’s, History Will Absolve Me is worth everyone’s time too.

  268. 273 El Diablo October 1, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    BREAKING NEWZ— This just in– WE now think it could be Kaila again. She has all the time in the world it seems between snacking (who’s getting chubby again? lol) to bounce from PC to PC at ol’ Zendork farm INC. and cut and paste non sequiturs.

    WE have all kinds of theories! The main problem, is that the DUKE?KAILA?ERIM?AROL?SATAN? ruse meant to distract us is just never gonna work. Despite these digressions, we’ll always come back to how evil and stupid Zendik is…

    Always. ;)

    Helen, now back to you— take it away…

  269. 274 Tiffany October 1, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    I was wondering Why all the bashing , I was actually considering going there ,IDK for how long ? Since they wont respond to my emails ,I have several questions , 1st.They wont let you mate ? 2nd They wont let you have children? 3rd What is their philosophy ? 4. are they vegans 5. are they religious or political? 6. What is a normal day like 7. Where do you sleep and do you sleep with others ?8. Are you allowed medical treatment? 9. Who has lived there recently like thelast 3-6 months ? 10. What can you bring and keep ?11. Is it work work work like you all say ? 11. What if you are in debt ? Will they take you ? 12. Are there couples there ? 13. Do you really have 2 ask for permission to have sex with another ?answer these I have more Thanks

  270. 275 I Got Over It October 1, 2008 at 4:43 pm

    So sad you’re such a loser. Keep dukin it out with yourself there, racist. Any other shittalkin’ fags wanna step up and admit we’re not peers? Whoops!

  271. 276 Helen Newman October 1, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    A ray of sunshine, courtesy of Diderot:

    “Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.”

    As we say at the artists’ colony, “Metaphors be with you.”

  272. 277 Mofo October 1, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    Zendiks,

    This is to you. I’m sorry if anybody else misses a reference I make.

    If Arol’s steaming pile of boring diahvomit called her latest radio show was actually true… If, in fact, groups or individuals who make up horrible things about people just to benefit themselves… if such people actually are “evil” and if “evil” people truly do go about destroying themselves… Then praise eM-e, Karma, allah, Satan, Jehovah and the rest of them bastards. You, as an institution would FINALLY be going bye-bye. Personally, it wouldn’t be soon enough for me.

    I can’t wait till you lose everything, you lying destructive fucks. My anger is not one inch inappropriate or misdirected, by anyone’s morality. You, Arol, will suck the dick of karma and it will cum all over your ugly liar face.

    Because I know what you’re saying, what you’re making up, how you’re plotting. You are the most fucked up group of liars I’ve ever met.

    I’m not one of those ex-Zendiks who is just upset because you didn’t turn out to be better than the average guy. You turned out to be the most corrupt, fucked-up, head-trip I’ve ever encountered. The deathKultur has nothing on you amoral, head-fuckers.

    To the dude asking about daily life at Zendik Farm. Seriously, don’t bother. Wait for Helen’s book to come out. Read about the fucked up place you almost went to.

    Zendik Farm is fucked up with few peers, and even fewer who will go beyond them in fucked-up-ed-ness. You can come away from there ok. But you can also come away from luch with Ted Bundy ok. On the other hand, there can be other results. Depends on how close you get.

    Believe me. I know.

  273. 278 Tiffany October 1, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    Hello Noone responded to my post whats up?

  274. 279 Mofo October 1, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    To the dude asking about daily life at Zendik Farm. Seriously, don’t bother. Wait for Helen’s book to come out. Read about the fucked up place you almost went to.

  275. 280 Tiffany October 1, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    Ok I hope your not referring to me as a dude, I’m soo not ,Just want info thats all, everyone answers everyone else why not answer my questions ?

  276. 281 Helen Newman October 1, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    Tiffany,

    I posted comprehensive responses to all your questions, at 5:12pm. I’m told that comment is “awaiting moderation.” It should show up soon. In the meantime, click on my username to get to my blog, which is home to the Zendik FAQ.

    Helen

  277. 282 To Tiffany October 1, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    You asked if anyone was watching this thread that had lived at Zendik within the last 3-6 months. I did. Despite the fact that some of the posts here ramble, are made under false names, and are even obscene, I do have to say, none of them are factually incorrect. Zendik Farm is every bit as hypocritical, and yes, evil, as those that post here claim it is. Helen’s FAQ are 100% accurate. And, there are other things happening right now that make the bad things that Zendik did that Helen talks about look like child’s play compared to what they are doing now. We just can’t talk about any of those things yet, due to legal concerns and protecting the privacy of minors. You are quite lucky that you never spent any time there. Someday, the whole truth will come out. Ciao.

  278. 283 Tiffany October 1, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Helen ,I clicked on your name but did not see any FAQ’s I just saw blogs you have written ,I am hoping they will post your responses soon ,I am in need of info desperately

  279. 284 Mofo October 1, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    Zendik Farm is a cult.

    You wake up in the morning and do typical chores, are told you are a cozmic warrior. They have goats, they have sex, they do dishes. They sell a magazine. They sell t-shirts. The higher-ups do less dishes and sell less magazines.

    If you piss-off Arol, you are psychologically battered, it is called therapy.

    Woe unto you if you fall in love. Worse if you have a child. Of course you’ll love the child and will never regret his/her birth.

    But you will regret the FUCK out of your choice to get caught up in that crazy-ass bullshit.

    Sooner or later you will leave (hopefully sooner for your sake). People will make you feel like a piece of shit. At least it is your choice how you feel about yourself after you finally get out of that madhouse.

    the end.

  280. 285 Helen Newman October 1, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    Tiffany,

    I’m posting this again, with links removed (I think the links were what led the server to suspect that my previous post might be spam, and therefore in need of moderation).

    Here we go…

    …but first I have a few questions for you:

    Would you happen to be from Austin?
    What does “IDK” stand for?
    Why are you considering going to live with people who won’t answer your emails?

    On to some answers:

    Why all the bashing? There’s a lot to bash.

    Yes, Arol will let you mate, but probably not for life, unless you’re her daughter. Also, whether or not you’re allowed to mate, you will not be allowed to conduct your relationship as you see fit–if Arol thinks you should break up with your mate, or be in a threesome with him plus someone else, or only have sex every other Sunday when the moon is full, then that’s what you’ll do, or suffer the consequences. It’s not that Arol lays out precise, consistent rules regarding the conduct of relationships; rather, she changes the rules constantly, and demands that her followers obey them as they change. Control, not consistency, is key.

    Arol sometimes lets women have children, and sometimes doesn’t. In more than one instance she has persuaded women to get abortions they would rather not have gotten. If you do have a child, you will not be allowed to raise her or him as you see fit; thus far, Arol has separated every Zendik mother from her child, at some point or points early in the child’s life. She also critiques mothers (and, to a lesser extent, fathers) constantly and viciously, and thereby imposes her own will regarding the ways in which the child will be raised.

    The Zendik philosophy is a New Age-Old World mishmash: “Law of Attraction” meets fire & brimstone meets John Calvin on acid. They preach honesty, cooperation, and the fulfillment of the individual’s genius–but you can’t take that seriously, since they practice deception, hierarchy and indentured servitude.

    They are not vegans.

    They do, yes, have a cockamamie religion (see “philosophy,” above), which serves, at times, to soften the grind of everyday life. They are not political, in the sense that their actions have no discernible effect on the larger culture.

    What’s a normal day like? For your reading pleasure, I’ve taken the liberty of cutting & pasting El Diablo’s hilarious summation, posted to this thread many moons ago. It may not be 100% factually accurate, but it’s right on in spirit, and also a crack-up:

    1. wake up at ass-crack of dawn
    2. eat gruel
    3. work for EL Duce Arol
    4. lunch…
    5. hear something funny OR get told you are a worthless piece of shit )it’s a crap shoot)
    6. work for mini-Duce Fawn
    7. dinner
    8. watch retarded hollywood movie with mostly illiterate cult members
    9. go to bed in a room with>10 people OR maybe get laid (and get herpes)
    10. run away and never go back OR stay and become a cynical grifter with the ethics of a Wall-Street stock broker.

    You sleep in your own space, but not in your own room. If Arol approves, you might get to sleep with your lover; when I was at Zendik, only the higher-ups got to sleep with their lovers regularly, while the rank and file were likely to get shit if they spent too many nights in the date space together.

    Yes, you’re allowed medical treatment. You’re entitled to all the herbal remedies you can stomach, free of charge–plus all the bogus psycho-babble you can handle, regarding the “psychic” causes of your sickness. If you encounter some kind of trauma that requires a visit to a doctor or a hospital, you may or may not be required to dun your parents for funds to offset the costs. Arol, in contrast, has the most comprehensive insurance policy ever: Any medical care she needs is paid for by the sellers.

    For a list of who lives at Zendik now, see my lengthy post of a few days ago. I’m not at liberty to disclose which ex-Zendiks have lived there within the past six months.

    You can bring whatever you want; the longer you stay, the less likely you are to hold on to any possession that is or can be turned into cold, hard cash.

    Why would we all say it’s work work work if it weren’t?

    If you’re in debt, feel free to declare bankruptcy, or go into default. You won’t be accruing any personal income, with which to make payments, while living at Zendik. No, they won’t reject you because you owe someone else money.

    Yes, there are couples.

    Yes, you have to ask permission to have sex–another woman will need to spec you before each “date,” to determine if you are fertile. She will then tell you whether or not you are permitted to have intercourse.

    To read the Zendik FAQ: Click on “Helen Newman.” Then, on the first post (titled “Sex, Money, Mind Control: The Zendik FAQ,” click “Read more.”

    Helen

  281. 286 Mofo October 1, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    it’s worse than helen says

    believe me.

  282. 287 Tiffany October 1, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    Helen , IDK means I dont know And No I am not from Austin , I actually know a current zendik I havent seen him since I was 5-6 Yrs old he is my Stepbrother I think thats why they are rejecting me ,He as your blog states is a higher up So thanks for all the info

  283. 288 Frog October 1, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    Tiffany I can answer your questions and sum up this whole comment field in a single sentence.

    Garbage in, garbage out.

  284. 289 Tiffany October 1, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    Frog ,What are you saying I’m garbage ? I dont quite understand please explain .

  285. 290 Tiffany October 1, 2008 at 10:45 pm

    Helen I think the reason they didnt respond to my email is maybey I’m a threat of some sort IDK what the mentality is over there I just know I was interested not because of him just the whole movement ,He just happens 2 be there Ive known that for at least 4 yrs or so ,And I know his biological name as well as the name he now goes by ,My Mom actually visited there a few yrs ago IDK if it was NC or WV But she went and I found out alot about the place from her Hopefully shes not reading this post, also I hope I didnt get him in trouble with my email He probably is pissed or someone over there is my guess would be fawn .

  286. 291 Tiffany October 1, 2008 at 11:39 pm

    I dont want to piss off people I dont know ,Yet I feel a need to know , I know bizarre right Well ,Thats me I guess , I just want all Zendiks reading this to not be offended or angry with me. I dont want anyone to get hurt over my email or this post ,I hope all is well .peace

  287. 292 Tiffany October 2, 2008 at 8:21 am

    Frog ,Why no answer ? All of a sudden the thread is dead ,Why is that?Also are you a current member?

  288. 293 El Diablo October 2, 2008 at 10:05 am

    “Man will never be free until the last king [president, boss, et.al.] is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.”

    Well, I guess we know what the banner on my next tattoo will read…

    Thanks Helen.

  289. 294 Tiffany October 2, 2008 at 11:33 am

    I think everyone is Angry here IDK why Was it really that bad? If so why did you stay 4 10 yrs or 5 or whatever ,There must be some joy there ,I cant wrap my head around all this negativity ,I thought it was peaceful there ,I guess you all know firsthand, But I feel like you all Have not gotten over it , Ive read posts where helen was trying to get pregnant then she gave up is that true ? I dont defend them as I dont know how they live, But if its soo horible why do people stay ?

  290. 295 jaque chirac October 2, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    people stay cause it’s a cult.

    Lots of people do shit that isn’t good for them. I know it’s hard to relate to doing an unfamiliar act that is obviously not in the person’s best interest. But just think of some of the wacky relationships people stay in that aren’t good for them.

    We humans are very manipulable. It would take a lot of writing to explain why people stay even though ZF is evil.

    i don’t have time but just belive me, please.

    Or read a book, read a book, read a mutha fuckin book.
    “Take Back Your Life” by Janja Lalich is a great one.

  291. 296 Tiffany October 2, 2008 at 8:52 pm

    Everyone says its a CULT ,I know all your definitions of a cult at least on this thread ,Religion can be called a CULT depending on what you believe ,I read plenty And I dont like your tone ,You act like I have my head in the sand , Well I don’t I know what a true cult is ,I dont think zendik defines a true cult ,The post goes dead then noone will answer my questions ,All of a sudden wheres Helen ? I think you all are about ripping this place apart for your own gratification ,Because whateveer happened there to you doesnt sit well ,I’m sorry there are so many x ZF’s that are Negative Why ? Does it serve a purpose ? Are you trying to help me to understand why I should or should not go ? It doesnt feel that way It feels like your spewing hatred ,If you truly want to help people interested Then answer the questions I asked ,Helen Did But where is she now ? And alot of it is based on a long x ago not recent I asked specific members or x members from the last 3-6 months to answer ,How do you know it hasnt changed unless your still there or were there recently .Peace please

  292. 297 anonymoose October 2, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Tiffany,

    What do you think or know about Zendik Farm that makes you think Zendik does not define a true cult?

    If your only standard for a cult is Manson style (killing others) or Jonestown style (mass suicide) then no, Zendik Farm has committed no murders (that I know of) as an institution nor any mass suicides.

    BUT

    Of these 15 characteristics of cults, outlined by Janja Lalich… Zendik Farm scores deep into cult territory. You have to have lived there to know much of this stuff as the Zendiks are quite capable of looking nice to neighbors. Lots of anti-social dangerous groups and individuals are capable of that.

    1) The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader, and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

    2) Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

    3) Mind altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking tongues, denunciation sessions, or debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

    4) The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (e.g., members must get permission to date, change jobs, or marry–or leaders prescribe what to wear, where to live, whether to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

    5) The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and its members (e.g., the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar–or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

    6) The group has a polarized, us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

    7) The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders, or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

    The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (e.g., lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

    9) The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and control members. Often this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

    10) Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

    11) The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

    12) The group is preoccupied with making money.

    13) Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

    14) Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

    15) The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. The believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave–or even consider leaving–the group.

    I truly don’t believe Zendik Farm has significantly changed. I guess I don’t know that they haven’t. I also don’t know for sure whether the Pope has changed his mind about abortion, whether Fidel Castro has converted to free market capitalism and just not made a press conference, I don’t know whether Mumia Abu-Jamal is privately confessing to murder, I don’t know whether the National Alliance have recently changed their feelings about blacks, jews, and hispanics and decided that white people are actually inferior.

    But I have a good few years experience with the Zendiks and I can tell you that they seriously are NOT the group of honest, friendly, straightforward people they pretend to be.

  293. 298 El Diablo October 3, 2008 at 1:37 am

    Tiff:

    You’re being obtuse. Do more reading and less talking and you’ll have all the answers to your oft-repeated questions.

    Re-read all of Helen’s posts vis-a-vis Zendik specifics. Helen’s FAQ is paramount as well. Read those and then ask questions.

    This is common literary courtesy.

    Ok? Ok.

  294. 299 anonymoose October 3, 2008 at 2:00 am

    sidenote: el diablo’s an arrogant **** in need of anger management.

  295. 300 El Diablo October 3, 2008 at 2:03 am

    i have no life. isn’t being cruel fun:)

  296. 301 run2notfrom October 3, 2008 at 6:00 am

    I previously asked about the farm under the name Seesha. I got a lil’ depressed reading all the negative stories about Zendik farm.. and I ended up reading A Quest Among the Bewildered for the third and it did not fail to blow my mind and completely inspire me once again.. I’m feeling that from reports Zendik is the not the place to go, but I am looking into other communes & eco-villages.. anyone agree that despite what’s happening at Zendik, Wulf is still the literal man? hm? & also, has anyone had any better experiences at other communes? I just can’t give up onthe idea of living in a sustainable way and working together, etc..

    seesha

  297. 302 Willis Drummond October 3, 2008 at 6:54 am

    Yup. I agree. Well at least I like some of the writings of Wulf Zendik.

    I also like some of the music of Charles Manson.

  298. 303 Tiffany October 3, 2008 at 7:54 am

    ElDiablo
    ,I have read all the FAQ’s as well as everything you have said which is alot by the way ,I have read and reread this thread to find out different things ,As well as other bits of info I could find elsewhere,And I have read many books on CULTS Most of which were religious based , I am only posing my questions to ppl on the farm or who were there recently , As I said before I dont think being negative is the answer , I am searching ,just like seesha , I just feel like maybey if your not there now how do you know it hasnt changed for better or worse , You all make it sound like Its as bad as David koresh and the branch dividians ,If I’m wrong correct me ,Please dont bash me as I am only seeking some answers, Which yes I have gotten, But Helen has not lived there since when? And You how long has it been ? Why did you leave and how did you leave ? I am searching for my own reasons why am I drawn to Zendik I dont know ,I can only answer that I am seeking a different way of life ,I know you arent their biggest fan that is obvious, But tell me why I want to understand .peace please

  299. 304 Julio October 3, 2008 at 10:23 am

    cause they like to take control of people’s minds and sex lives and relationships with their kids.

    They have a wacko morality and also believe that they are “cozmically” correct.

    They screw people up. That is why I’m NOT their biggest fan.

    They pretend to be the coolest of the cool, and while you are there.. if you are the elitist type, it is kinda nice to feel like you are the smartest, most advanced, bad-ass and the rest of the world is a bunch of wimps because they couldn’t handle the hard-core Zendik way.

    The Zendik way is hardcore because you give up your power to make decisions for yourself, give up your autonomy in your romantic relationships and your relationships with your kids.

    Really, it makes you a slave. I was foolish/fooled enough to believe I was so strong because I could endure slavery.

    The “closer in” you get, the more slavery you endure.

    Slavery really does engender a bit of anger.

  300. 305 Tiffany October 3, 2008 at 11:04 am

    Julio.What the hell , Are you El Diablo or who are you? How do I know that actual zendiks are posting to keep people away like myself ? Someone on this post said half of the ips were not of ex members, So who is writng all of this ? I am more confused than when I started ,How Do you know its not them posting ,posing as ex members ? Why would they do that ?To discourage new ppl from coming in would be my assumption .What do you think ?

  301. 306 A Recent Ex-Zendik October 3, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Well, Tiffany, what can I say.. I don’t know why the forum would die all of a sudden except that I have a life to live and it’s hard to grab time to sit down and write post after post about Zendik. I think the rampant anger you are experiencing is because quite a few of us know about things that are happening RIGHT NOW that are even more horrible than anything Zendik Farm has done before. And the people right in the line of that fire are incredibly pissed. And they have a right to be. But we just can’t “come out” publicly quite yet, because there are serious events pending in court.

    And if your relative is a “higher-up”, good for him. Of course, no one dodges the Bullet-o-Wrath entirely, but that’s not really your concern, is it? He reaps the rewards as well as the crashes and there won’t be any convincing him that he should get the hell outta Dodge. I left only a few months ago, and up till that day, you couldn’t have told me one thing about how Zendik was bad, I would’ve just blown it off and tried to go about my day. Took me awhile to see the writing on the wall… but then again, I had a crash course, because instead of just being able to leave peacefully, I was assaulted and much much worse.

    Anyway, if I were you I would just be happy they seem to be paying little attention to you, and I am sorry about your step-brother. I really feel the most sorry for the friends and relatives of current members. I actually feel the MOST MOST sorry for the parents of the adult members. For one, I am happy that my child is specifically protected by law from going anywhere near that place. I made sure of that, before anything else. >.<

    ANYway, good luck to you.

  302. 307 Tiffany October 3, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    To the ex zendik , Why were you assaulted because you tried to leave ? I am more curious now than ever, everyone says there is stuff going on how would they know ?unless like you were there ,All this stuff about court etc , Why cant you talk about it ? If your not there who cares what you say ? Pls reply I am very interested in all of this it seems like a bad sopa opera, Tiff

  303. 308 A Recent Ex-Zendik October 3, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    Hi Tiff, I won’t answer those questions on a public forum, but you can email me at jd651350@gmail.com

    Email me with your email address and then I’ll respond from my REAL email address, LOL.

    :)

  304. 309 El Diablo October 3, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    I’d like to say a few more things (haven’t I said enough?) , cuz apparently the uber-retarded crowd thinks I’m being a “meany-meany two by four”.

    Look people, if we, as a species, are going to evolve we have to start thinking and writing logically. Most of the shit I make fun of here is really, really bad writing– the result of piss-poor thinking. Further, people need to discipline themselves enough to do some research and back-story gathering on their own before they start peppering an author with these poorly worded questions larded with latent hostility.

    [ed.note. this shit is very common-- a person with ZERO erudition or personal experience with a phenomena starts badgering a person with a great deal of real-life experience or subject-matter expertise with that phenomena, as if they are PEERS. It is the height of arrogance. Tiffany you are the student by your own admission-- act like it. Begin by listening-- and then asking questions in a manner respectful of the subject-matter expertise discrepancy between you and the person you are questioning; not by making straw-man arguments or throwing around wild red herrings as you challenge premises you know almost nothing about].

    Tiffany (aka Kaila), let’s be frank, you really have no business asking more than one question at a time, mainly cuz your wack premises and malformed empiricism are all over the place– able to be followed by only your own pre-bi-cameral mind.

    Slow down; make sure each sentence leads organically into the next; and when a new idea comes up– start a new paragraph. This isn’t necessary for any other reason that so a third party (i.e., the rest of us) can follow what the fuck you are saying. Those run-on sentences bulging with non sequiturs are killing me!

    Sure, YOU know what you mean, but when one writes or speaks they have an implicit audience that needs some help to get from A to Z. Rules of logic, word-choice, grammar, et.al. are all important just like the tracks are important for the train. Off-roadin’ it, just aint cool if we are traveling from NY to CA.

    As for my much lamented arrogance– no shit. Calling me arrogant is like calling Jeffery Dahmer hungry. It’s kinda besides the point. The real issue are these: is what I am saying valid or not? & can you critique my arguments or not? Savvy?

    Discipline– grasshopper!

    P.s. I wonder why iI have to assert that I have a life (that boring upbraid of “not having a life” is just so misplaced with me that I can’t even respond to it without laughing at it’s inherent lameness; jesus it takes all kinds), and being harsh/cruel to stupid people is just what the universe intended. What you call “cruel” the universe files under the apotheosis of cosmic responsibility. Is it crueler to confront or ignore stupidity? I’ve made my choice and the biological realm seems to agree (most days).

    P.p.s This “negativity” rubric people seem to file everything under with such blasé aplomb is really chappin’ my ass. For example, calling Hitler a “racist killer” is not “being negative”. It’s called being correct. So, calling Zendik a cult (or Holy Roller stupid) is not “being negative” it’s merely stating what is obvious once one looks at the evidence (remember when empiricism inside a theoretical framework mattered?). You hippies are killing me with your imprecise word usage and lazy thinking. Discipline!

  305. 310 Tiffany October 3, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    El Diablo,Sloww Down ,

    I am not Kaila , If I was why would I be on this thread ? As for calling me names which I assume are meant for her not me . Why ? I dont know you .All I know is what I see ,And by the looks of it everyone is hell pissed .I merely asked questions.
    Yes , Ive gotten answers, And will get more .But I never said whatever your talking about, I actually have no clue what your talking about .Excuse me if my sentence structure isn’t perfect. We are adults right ? I am not in 4th grade ,I will email the ex zendik and get more info ,Since obviously something horrible is going on over there .
    Which concerns me a great deal .You are hell bent on putting people down you dont even know. What did I do or say to piss you off? Soo much?Sorry ,I also by the way am hardly a hippie .

  306. 311 Tiffany October 3, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    To recent ex zendik ,

    They actually arent ignoring me ,Which I find interesting .
    I dont know exactly whom I am communicating with its all email , Hopefully its the person I needed to speak to .

    I want to email you but I cant compromise my life and let you see the real me which is an outsider ,I’m not in Zendik !! I will try something if it works so be it, If not hopefully I will be able to get a hold of you .

  307. 312 El Diablo October 3, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    “I actually have no clue what your talking about,” — tiff

    Well, you and I have an accord then. Lol. I might as well been speaking in Latin huh? I love you.

  308. 313 Tiffany October 4, 2008 at 12:57 am

    There may be people watching this thread very carefully and I’m not speaking of x zendiks , The Government can trace every IP Believe me when I say tread carefully You dont know who I am ,Nor does anyone else ,maybey I have a cover Think hard about it .

  309. 314 Govt Watching? October 4, 2008 at 1:29 am

    Dear Mr. Govt:

    “Purpose or purposes for which the contributions to be solicited shall be used:
    Fully into funding the non-profit arts foundation, school for underprivilaged children”
    From City of Roanoke, Virginia
    Registration of Charitable Solicitors

    www . roanokeva . gov / DeptApps / CharitableSolicitations . nsf / 1363cb664696fa6a85256c6e005b8d92 / 1ecf68512f49094685256f7a00647f7e?OpenDocument

  310. 315 Jim Croce October 4, 2008 at 7:36 am

    Why do people have to “tread carefully” on a public forum? Is there a government conspiracy to protect Zendik Farm and you’re collecting all of our IP’s an we’ll be rounded up and killed based on posting here?

    Please.

    Yersuchasilly.

  311. 316 Tiffany October 4, 2008 at 8:03 am

    To whomever it may concern ,

    I did not post that ,Someone using my name did, I am not part of any Government organazation .

    Why would I post that seriously ?

    As for El diablo, Now you love me ?I assume your being sarcastic .

    Peace Please ;)

  312. 317 1-3-5 October 4, 2008 at 11:55 am

    Hello All,

    I have to say I find this a great excercise in democracy. Keep it up! We are a very diverse group on this planet and we have different styles of communicating. Keep going for it and the truth will out as they say.

    I was a zendik. I have read this post. I have seen the things that are posted here about my former friends and lovers. I would actually testify in court that the statements made here are true. I for one hope the government is reading and takes action. I know I have called the state police which are located in marlinton and told them to check this thread out.

    I will keep my respose general and not address anyone directly at this time. It was asked how could people live there for so long with all this horrible shot going on. Briefly, it comes at you a piece at a time. I stole for these people and was welcomed home as a hero. I was expected to lie to the authorities, which I did on several occasions. It was a gradual process of turning ones mind. That is how it happens. Had I seen all these behaviors in one day or asked to do some of the things I did on my first day. I would have been gone.

    Mostly I find zendiks irrelevent, out of touch and unimportant. I know after leaving I and several others have made numerous attempts at outreach with my various friends there only to be blown off or completely ignored. Not a big deal. We do have choice in this country. The only reasons I would even bring this up at all. Is the way they are harming children and have hurt them in the past.

    It can take people who leave there a few years to process their experiences there. That is a big reason you hear from people who left more than 3-6 months ago.

    Take care all and I hope this helps. Democracy isn’t neat just necessary.

  313. 318 1-3-5 October 4, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    I would like to put forth what I feel is a creative suggestion for what is, by some, perceived as negative or falsehoods on this thread. I invite the zendiks, any or all, to come to a place of mutual choosing and we will have a face to face talk. Those who can’t be there in person we can connect via the Internet. Those who want can say what they want zendiks feel free to bring what you want to discuss and we can record it and put it on YouTube. Then people can decide for themselves. Anyone who speaks with the zendiks please pass this on.

  314. 319 Tabagen October 4, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    to who wanted to know.
    Revel is marcus (?) last name forgoten… Any help.?
    Kaila/tiffany is ofcurse lisa butler from Austin Texas area.
    Vie is lisa Davis new jersey.
    Talon is Tom (?) from michagan.
    Zoe is Scott ( smeagol… See LOTR) crist, from LA gangland.
    Nika is nicole Keller from ailing from Savannah Georgia.

    Interesting data on these folks. All have been seriously suicidal, thought they were Jesus, or a combination of both at one time.
    This made them more suseptable to arols will since zendik ” saved their lives”
    So If one wants to know why people stay so long under these conditions of opression. It might help to view it the light that these folks think it’s a death sentence to live without Arol and the Farm who ” saved their lives”
    Without Arols oversight ok every major decision ( career, educational, sexual, and spiritual) they are dead ( in thief own minds)
    All the while tiffany they believe you and I are the ones that live in a deathcult.

  315. 320 1-3-5 October 4, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Another thing I would like to add. I have spoken with some of the unnamed people on here. FYI, some do this because they are afraid of retaliation from the zendiks. More than one person has said that they thought a certain zendik could show up in there town and do them harm for what they have written. I don’t know if that is true or not. I do think that is an indication of their experience.

    Did anyone catch the radio show that Arol did? Yikes!!! That is my opinion.

  316. 321 Tabagen October 4, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    sorry about bad auto correct typos. I do this from my blackberry and am unable to review this before posting.
    I swear I am not illiterate

  317. 322 Tabagen October 4, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    who has ever called arol a mystic?
    Who are these mystics that she talks with and understand her?
    I listened to her ramblings on that podcast.
    She is as dumb as ever, produce one non zendik article calling her a “mystic”.
    This self labeling is only another sign of her overblown cult leader mentality and shame on chazz and everyone on the farm for not tethering her to a planet called earth.
    How is chazz’s jaw these days. I hope he can go to the chiropractor as well to get his readjustment from arols bitch slap.

  318. 323 1-3-5 October 4, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    I must say if you need evidence of how far off the mark the zendik “movement” is listen to these podcasts. According to her. All of us who write on this thread and the many others like it are like jews in the ovens who didn’t see our death coming. ?!? WHAT??? People here are expressing their thoughts and experiences and are recommending a course of action for others to accept, investigate or refute. This is a healthy exchange. My personal take is that she must think this is all I do all day. I wish a zendik would come on here and explain to me exactly what is meant by negative and I assume there is a corresponding positive way of talking.

    People can express themselves how they choose. If you don’t like it that’s okay. I just don’t get how someone can say it just sounds so negative and isn’t doing any good. Holy shit. People are talking about rape, murder, mind control and many serious issues here. This is serious. I say ask for evidence, not try to dismiss it as being said in not the right way.

    I would also like to point out I have done more “revolutionary” actions since leaving the farm then I ever came close to in all my years there. I helped a school today on it’s way to becoming a zero emissions school. Concrete work that will better our environment, which will in turn improve the health of all people and life on this planet thus making room and giving time for any necessary social changes that people desire. That’s revolution muthafukkas. (like that spelling). I do things like that all year long. I have love, I have family and an awesome group of friends. Most of which I met through Zendik. I was never able to be close to them there like I am now. I live much closer to my ideals of my zendik years out on my own than I ever could in the environment that was created there. What is others experiences on this point?

    You can’t have a free environment or discussion when you feel like your next sentence will cost you your home. Especially if you feel you have nowhere else to go. When I left after several years there. I was given seven dollars and I ride to the highway. I also had a traumatic injury that I had been suffering for years that made it nearly impossible for me to walk long distances. I don’t regret this and am not bringing it up as a poor me statement. When I did this I believed I was part of a social experiment and that was part of the experiment. Fair enough. Well after more than a year I concluded what kind of fucked up social experiment does that to people. I was not the first nor the last. I wrote the farm, recommending the end of this practice. That if this place, zendik, was really a revolution of conscience then these practices must be stopped. I never heard a word. I can give more examples but this is already getting too long.

  319. 324 Tiffany October 4, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    OMG , I cant belive you think I am Kaila still , Why would I post on here?
    What would be the point if Arol is so against this thread ?

    And as far as your naminng people how do you know its them? Do your research before coming up with these wild accusations .

    And I highly doubt any of them would want to meet with you what purpose would that serve ?

    Are you going to tell them they are brainwashed ? Give me a break .

    Like they would listen to that ,You should know better if you lived there .

    I again will state I am not Kaila I dont even know what she looks like .

    Nor do I live at Zendik !!!

    And Where did Helen go ? All of a sudden she has vanished ,
    Interesting hmmm

    I am just a person searching for a place to live period .

  320. 325 El Diablo October 4, 2008 at 11:43 pm

    Tiffany (clearly NOT kaila):

    Your comments are still imbued with a certain latent hostility. You are accusatory and adversarial, when you have no cause to be (you have zero subject-matter expertise and almost no erudition on anything related to anthropology, science, logic, politics, et.al. In short you are in no position to be this adversarial toward your betters).

    However, since you seem impervious to our warnings, I suggest you go at once, with ventre à terre, to live at Zendik Inc ™.

    I think a healthy dose of being treated like a proletarian slave would be good for a person like you. Most people like being a slave, and you are nothing if not tout le monde…

    I still adore you and everything you represent. ;)

    “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible positions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them…”

    – Thomas Jefferson

  321. 326 Helen Newman October 5, 2008 at 3:47 am

    Tiffany,

    It seems to me that my comrades have been doing a fine job of addressing your concerns and answering your questions in my absence. If you feel there are particular quanta of information that only I can supply, feel free to email me (madgelma@hotmail.com) and I will see what I can do to help you.

    Helen

  322. 327 Tiffany October 5, 2008 at 9:00 am

    To Helen & El Diablo

    You think by putting me down and saying mean things to me is helping ?

    I dont quite understand ,And El Diablo its obvious your very intelligent with all the BIG words you use .

    Why dont you speak in normal english so that some of us can understand ?

    I am not stupid but all the words you use, I dont know ,Call me what you may .But I feel like I’m talking to a DR who uses DR speech.

    And now your telling me to go there. I dont quite understand your logic as yes I am not as smart as you .

    Why must you treat me such ways ?

    I am a seeker of information thats all .

  323. 328 DR Diablo October 5, 2008 at 10:40 am

    “Why dont you speak in normal english so that some of us can understand ?”– Tiff

    Sweetie this made me laugh out loud so hard I think I may have dislodged something internally– i may have to go see a ‘doctor’ over it. Thanks for being perfect. I couldn’t have asked for a better response.

    Lol (ouch).

    Dr. Diablo;)

  324. 329 Ed You're An Idiot © October 5, 2008 at 10:58 am

    Tiffany if you’re looking for information you’re looking in the wrong place. There’s no information here. You’re over there talking to a dude who flatters himself in accusing me of thinking I’m his peer in response to my telling him to go fuck himself or herself or whatever, what does that tell you about this page? Wake up. Involve yourself in something and the information will fall in your lap on its own terms. Be in the moment and seek nothing. Ed’s mouth is full of paste. Let him choke to death on it. Anybody else here is just going to do the same thing to you, sling their database in response to you doing that to us instead of helping you understand because we don’t give a rats ass here, we’re just here to unload venom against what our little thetans did to us. That’s why we call this place the gas chamber. Odd how anyone can walk right out the open door but chooses to stay. Tiffany if you have half a brain listen me good you here: We hate you. Get the fuck out.

  325. 330 Scrambled Eggs October 5, 2008 at 11:37 am

    No doubt. Like, lets come in here and take advantage of good people’s names, drag them through the dirt, expect them to offer any response to that whatsoever as if they and not us are the stupid screaming faggots nuking our own implants, wasting our opportunities to live magnificent lives instead of being complacent cowards that someone needs to hunt down and knock off. Yeah, let’s do this thing, who’s down? Let’s all us jealous rejects just drop the poison in the koolaid already and get it over with asap or afap or whatever before the fbi gets a chance to scratch their nuts. AM I SPEAKING ENGLISH ASSHOLE?

  326. 331 English Asshole October 5, 2008 at 11:39 am

    bloody ‘ell, mate

  327. 332 DR Diablo October 5, 2008 at 11:49 am

    “You’re over there talking to a dude who flatters himself in accusing me of thinking I’m his peer in response to my telling him to go fuck himself or herself or whatever, what does that tell you about this page?” — Holy Roller/ed you’re an idiotoyeeo

    Well, I can tell you what it “tells” us about your ability to craft an actual sentence. Does being this illiterate happen through lack of aptitude for the intellectual, or merely through not trying? Is it head trauma, bad genes, or just being shiftless…

    P.s. Zendik is a cult (this will keep Helen off my back vis-a-vis these digressions. Heh heh).

  328. 333 Rampant Oddball With Endearingly Counterproductive Foresight Powered By Lust For Sound Of Own Voice October 5, 2008 at 11:54 am

    Banana!

  329. 334 Frog October 5, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    *scratches head*

    Tiffany how old are you?

  330. 335 El Diablo October 5, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    “…stupid screaming faggots nuking our own implants…” — Vong

    Jesus, can it get any more manic and detached from our common language? Is this mescaline or paint you’re on bro?

    “…wasting our opportunities to live magnificent lives instead of being complacent cowards that someone needs to hunt down and knock off,” — Talon

    I’ll put the quality of my life up against yours any time kids, by any standard. And hunting me down (to “knock me off”) is another thing you retards would be inept at– so stick to making goat’s cheese and eco-architecture (these are the only things at which you’re actually competent) and leave the threats to people who can actually follow through (i.e., not emaciated dirt-farmers with retrograde armatures & impoverished tactical training). Savvy?

    “AM I SPEAKING ENGLISH ASSHOLE?” — Rev

    Uh, not really. At times you get close, but it always just seems to slip form your grasp. Have you tried reading books? That may help.

    P.s. Zendik is a cult.

  331. 336 El Tells-His-Own-Story October 5, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    It’s obvious that this guy who’s so interested in personally responding to my posts after I blew him off really wishes he was my peer and this will ultimately eat a hole in him. Too bad he doesn’t have the balls to be straight about what he really wants. Tough luck. P.S. Tell me something I don’t already know, faggot.

  332. 337 Simon October 5, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    I like to make a spectacle of myself talking to myself all over this comment field with no frame of reference.

  333. 338 1-3-5 October 5, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Whose good name is being dragged through the dirt?
    Arol? I think that people are saying they are willing to do more than blog about what they are saying? Can more be asked? This thread was started by someone asking about really visiting. People have come on and given their opinions. That is actually staying on track in this case. For those who feel things are just hate speak. I suggest starting another thread on whichever topic you like that way. You have that choice.

    To Tiffany I would like to say this about my own comments and your search for a place to live. Ultimately you have to decide for yourself. Take this information gleen what you can and search for more info. There are other sources to be had. I wish you the best of luck. I will say as a warning watch your bank account and your credit cards with these people. They have trashed many peoples credit ratings in their zeal of the revolution. Their is even court evidence to prove what I am saying on that one. I would also suggest if it is possible to maintain a close amount of communication with your family and friends as you go through this process of looking for a new home. That way if you find yourself in an uncomfortable position you can have help available. Plus, I don’t know if you have been briefed in your communications as to the version of what the zendiks call psycho-threapy that is practiced there. Before going and participating I would seriously recommend talking to some experts and discovering how such things are supposed to work so that you don’t get caught up in what I feel was an incredibly destructive process which ended up causing more harm than good in all of the former members that I have personally talked to. There is a huge gap between the intentions of the people there and what is actually happening. I say this from personal experience.

    Take care and good luck.

  334. 339 1-3-5 October 5, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    I would like to add this about my suggestion about a group meeting that was recorded. I would be like a debate. You can set ground rules and go from there. If my position was to change the world I wouldn’t hold some idea that people were just going to accept my ideas without challenge and I would be ready to defend my history and past actions. People have a right to now about the things we do or have done if we are wanting to take any kind of role of responsibility in their lives. I don’t see the problem with this. I go through a very similar process with all the people I work with. I began working with the city where I live and had to go through an investigation of my life before I was allowed to work with the kids in the school system. I am not asking for anyone to put themselves in a position that tens of thousands of people are subjected to daily when they want people to hear and respect their ideas. Scientist do it with every new discovery for example. They have to prove their merits. Comments?

  335. 340 A court of law October 5, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Court might be a good forum for these debates. Truth and accountability.

  336. 341 Learn the Hard Way October 5, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    Well, this forum makes no sense to ME any longer at any rate. Oh well… of COURSE Zendik is a cult, and if anyone is set on going there after reading allll over the internet about the experiences people have there, then there’s nothing I can do about it. Learn the hard way, like I did. Try not to burn any bridges with friends and family, though. You may need them someday.

  337. 342 Nosepicker October 5, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    What are you talking about? Is posting anonymous observations illegal? *shrug* Tell yourself whatever you have to tell yourself. See yourself in court, coward.

  338. 343 Frog October 5, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    I have a movie script abstract I want someone to look at for me. Since art community appears to be part of the topic maybe someone here is interested.

  339. 344 Tabagon October 5, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    AFAP!

    AFAP continues.

    This just in….
    Scott Smegol / Zoe Golum, ( see LOTR), admits he commited murder and has a internal dialouge about in which “The Realm” absolves him of his crime.. Arol give him another computer which Kaila raaised the money for hustling progressive organization to sell a t-shirt about a fake revolution.

    Arol takes credit for inventing organic gardening in Marlington while chatting with other Mystics on the phone.

    All Zendik men have guns..(see Jim Jones)

    Blackhawk is reprinted, except in this addition all charicter get married, go to church, get haircuts, and Sal takes his daughter to Chucky Cheese instead of the beach for the screw of her life.

    The Realm refuses cArols membership to the mystics VIP room in hell.

    Stay tuned for th weekly Zendik news update.

  340. 345 Tabagon October 5, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    The First Run is RETRACTED on account of retarded Blackberry auto correct Spelling…

    AFAP!

    AFAP continues.
    This just in….
    Scott Smeagol/ Zoe Golum, (see LOTR), admits he commited murder and has a cArol inspired internal dialouge in which “The Realm” absolves him of his crime… cArol gives him another computer that Kaila raised the money for by hustling progressive liberal organizations to sell their T-shirt about a fake revolution.

    cArol takes credit for inventing Organic Gardening in Marlington while chatting on the phone with other self-appointed Mystics.

    All Zendik men have guns…(see Jim Jones)

    Blackhawk is reprinted, except in this edition all characters get married, go to church (to appease local law dogs), get haircuts, and Sal takes his hot daughter to Chucky Cheese for pizza instead of the beach for the screw of her life.

    The Realm refuses cArols membership application to the Mystics VIP room in hell.

    The Ecolibrium Alliance takes Zendik to court for wasting moneys raised for the organization in Fawns Victoria Secret underwear collection..

    Stay Tuned for the weekly Zendik news update…

    AFAP!!!

  341. 346 Frog October 5, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    Judging by that response, I’ll take it I came to the wrong place for art. Oh well. Toodles.

  342. 347 1-3-5 October 5, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    Yes Frog, wrong place for art. There are many threads and forums on the net for art. I don’t know where you live but you may even find some local places maybe even the library.

  343. 348 ZENDIK UPDATE! October 5, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    Satellite correspondence 10/10/10

    Zendik Inc changes name to “Intergalactic double-wide of the bones of Wulf”. All living members are housed at various Super-Max correctional facilities for XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXXX (and XXXXXX) [redacted] throughout the US.

    (C)arol von Wulfing Esq plays second chair skin-flute in Sing(wail)-Sing(wail) orchestra. Must fend off attacks by both guards and other prisoners anytime she opens her mouth while allowing anything to escape it. (C)arol does still occasionally receive mail from people thinking she is Yoko Ono. The letters are mixed. “We miss your creepy podcasts and tone poems Yoko,” one letter from California reads, “but we know you’re in a better place now.”

    Lisa Butler while in prison, brokers deal between her own soul and the Devil for distribution rights to “I’d rather reign in Hell than serve in Heaven” slogan. Sales of this shirt at Kailagoestohell.com. Her sentence is being commuted as this goes to press by the first term Governor of Colorado (Gov. Diablo) for ‘good’ even ’slavish’ behavior. “She was a model inmate,” the Governor says as he smirks slightly from behind his parapet on the prision wall, “shit, she’d do anything for anybody in authority without even blinking. A real people pleaser– you’d think she’d even once act in an autonomous way, but she never did.”
    “It was monolithic,” he pauses, “adamantine in its consistency. I had to sign for her release. A person like that would never break the rules out on the streets, as long as that cop was in her head keeping her in line.”

    Rev A Zendork is commissioned by Warden D. Rivera of Mexico City Penitentiary to do restoration painting on Frieda Khalo murals through the prison. The reviews are mixed. “His composition is good, more or less,” one guard says on condition of anonymity “but it’s like he’s doing ‘paint-by-numbers’, ya know? There’s nothing original about any of it.” To which Revel seethes, “what the fuck is he talking about? I’m being forced to do resto-work of somebody else’s shit! Of course it’s unoriginal. If I had the freedom to do my own work I would!”
    The warden shakes his head in signature insouciance, “We’d like to believe him, but even when he was free he did this kind of shit. At any rate he’s perfect for it. If we keep him stocked up in Mescal and mature women,” here the warden hangs quotes in the air with his tanned and ossified hands, offering a wry smile during the pause, “he’ll paint all day for us.”

    Stay tuned for updates as they come in from the Psychic Realm!

    lol.

  344. 349 HA HA HA! October 5, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    Okay, now I’ve had a really good laugh… takes his daughter to Chucky Cheese for pizza instead of the screw of her life! oh lord… … that was funny! Ah, hindsight IS 20/20, isn’t it?

  345. 350 Cicero October 5, 2008 at 9:09 pm

    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, Crevolution consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor TruthwayInc incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut Cosmik Consciousness enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in Proto-nutronic nonsense voluptate velit esse cillum dolore Psychic Realm eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui Cosmic Pizza Hut officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum Run your own show.

  346. 351 1-3-5 October 6, 2008 at 12:16 am

    Interesting about the blackhawk thing. Very funny. Arol was just saying in her last “rap” about people who think things but don’t do them being just as sick as the people who do actually commit crimes. What is she saying about Wulf. He even wrote a song about it didn’t he?

    I recommend for anyone who may seriously be considering going to listen to these rants. I think rant is the most accurate description. Arol was never very strong on the details but I would argue that there are miles of difference between thinking something and doing it.

  347. 352 natalie October 6, 2008 at 1:20 am

    i’m just wondering if anyone knows what happened to bugzy

  348. 353 natalie October 6, 2008 at 1:22 am

    btw they must be realy engrossed in World of warcraft because I’ve checked the website here and there for the past 6 months and it seems they are forever under construction. funny, considering they have time to come look at this blog and comment on it.

  349. 354 Tabagen October 6, 2008 at 6:05 am

    bugs is alive and well in austin Texas
    A good man.

  350. 355 Tiffany October 6, 2008 at 8:49 am

    Frog ,Apparently I live in the place for airheads .

    You never answered my questions ?

    And for the person who said get the fuck out or off hereWhy should I .And why do you hate me? Why?

  351. 356 ronaldomoon October 6, 2008 at 11:37 am

    EL-tells-his-own-story-whoever-the-fuck-you-are…

    Words like “faggot” have no place here. Go lament over closet homosexual tendencies somewhere else.